gopher tortoises in MS?

[cricket54]

I am pretty sure my dogs have found a gopher tortoise in our backyard here in Vicksburg, MS. The dog must have carried it to the bottom of the steps to the garden area. This looks like a gopher tortoise, not a box turtle. Colors totally different. Searching on them apparently they are here in the deep south. My dog found a huge adult male tortoise last summer when I lived in the high desert of the Mohave Desert in Morongo Valley, CA. Right now she is closed up tight in her home so I can't see her, but I am sure the dog won't have injured her. I see they are endangered species, and I do want to let her go back in the backyard again where she must have been living for several yrs according to her size. To large to go through the fence and now holes under the fence that I can find. So this is an exciting find for me, I loved box turtles and had never seen one till I saw the Mohave one last yr. Except in zoos, pet stores, and reptile shows. Does anyone have these as pets (Shes the size of a box turtle and an aquarium would be too small to keep her in). Just curious of what folks know about these.

Sharon

 

[Shrike]

This species is native to the SE corner of MS.

Here is a link to the USFWS species profile:

http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesProfile/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=C044

The Federal ESA prohibits "taking" of an endangered or threatened animal. This means that you cannot "harm harass, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect any threatened or endangered species." "Taking" can also mean habitat alteration resulting in harm to the species. Whether on private or Federal land, whether intentional or unintentional, the "taking" of a listed animal is illegal. Protection in addition to this may be afforded through your State's Endangered Species Act.

If what you found is actually a gopher tortoise, you are legally required to leave it alone and let it do its thing.

I don't believe your fence would restrict the tortoise to your yard as this species can dig very well. A very nice find! You should consider yourself lucky.

 

[Matt K]

However-

They can be kept as they can legally be imported from Mexico, so you could theoretically buy as many as you want and legally import them without much hassle, but you are not supposed to touch one if it is found wild on US soil. Go figure! If you need to find it a home, there is a guy in NE Texas that has a tortoise ranch. You could PM me for details.

Personally I would take it away from your yard to the nearest 'safe' looking wild area and release it to "do its thing"....

 

[Shrike]

Relocating the tortoise from Mississippi to a ranch in Texas is illegal under the Endangered Species Act.

I wouldn't attempt to relocate the tortoise unless you are absolutely positive its trapped inside your yard (I don't think it is). Even then I would only place it outside your fence, close to where you found it. When individuals aren't educated about the tortoise's habitat needs or how to relocate the tortoises safely and effectively, relocation efforts can do more harm than good.

Some scientific studies suggest that relocated tortoises don't stay at the new site for long when they are given what is termed a "hard release," that is, simply set free somewhere. These tortoises can die if they wander into unsuitable habitat or encounter a road. Relocated tortoises are more likely to survive a "soft release," in which they are kept temporarily within a fenced area at a new site and are cared for until they adjust to their new surroundings. These soft releases can only be undertaken by permitted consultants and state and federal wildlife officials. To attempt to do so yourself would again be illegal.

I think its great that you found the tortoise. In my opinion, you should appreciate it as a rare find and let it be.

 

[cricket54]

I let the tortoise go back in the backyard. She was about 7 inches or so and healthy. The plants in the yard are all the stuff they eat. She could find her way out of the yard if she wanted I guess. I kept the dogs in the house a while to give her a chance to relocate unmolested, and don't know where she is now. Others I have talked to have seen these same tortoises all around this area. Theres plenty of habitat for them to live in in this here and I am sure its a gopher tortoise. Maybe we have more of them then box turtles. Theres plenty of streams and bayous here, and they seem to prefer that. Lots of areas in the yard that these turtles could survive in. I find spotted king snakes in the yard a lot too as well as 2 kinds of lizards and even small gekos. I love turtles and hope she stays around.

Sharon

 

[cricket54]

Oh I did feel blessed to find it! Last yr when the dogs found a tortoise in my yard in Morongo Valley, we felt blessed to. The Mohave tortoises are extremely endangered out there. We weren't far from the 29 Palms Military base, and they want to expand the base, which has those trying to save the toroises there in a quandry. They also have folks riding ATV's and driving in the deserts there putting these toroises in danger. My daughter and I didn't keep him long (just the dogs disturbing him was dangerous to him) and turned him loose back where he was found. He was really large and had to be at least 70 yrs old. Morongo Valley (near Yucca Valley on 62 or 29 Palms Hwy) is part of their habitat, and in the High Desert of the Mohave Desert. Wide open spaces with homes scattered around, not much fencing. If he survived that long out there, I am sure he would live on. Out here, I think the main danger to gopher tortoises is crossing the road. The neighborhoods here are all old and heavily wooded, so tortoises could be living here and not even seen. We moved into this house last August, and folks living here before didn't have dogs. Thankyou all for responding to my message.

Sharon

 

[Shrike]

You definitely did the right thing. Hopefully you will see it again. It sounds like you live in a great area for herping.

 

[Shrike]

By the way, did you happen to take a pic of the tortoise? It would be cool to see what you found.

 

[Matt K]

By the way, ....

So what credentials do you have regarding tortoises and thier care? Do you have practical experience, or have you just read what you can find via Google and repeat it on forum posts?

:?

 

[Shrike]

So what credentials do you have regarding tortoises and thier care? Do you have practical experience, or have you just read what you can find via Google and repeat it on forum posts?

:?

I'm not an expert on gopher tortoises or the care of tortoises in captivity. My previous posts were made within a specific context--the Endangered Species Act.

I have a Masters Degree in environmental science from Indiana University which entailed coursework in ecology, conservation biology and environmental law. During graduate school I conducted field work with Kirtland's snakes and obtained the appropriate permits in order to do so. I've spent the last 3 years working for an environmental consulting firm in PA. Based on that experience, I have some familiarity with the Endangered Species Act, as well as some appropriate field techniques for the capture and release of reptiles and amphibians.

I honestly didn't mean to offend you with anything that I said previously, but the fact remains that capturing a wild gopher tortoise and sending it to a ranch in Texas is illegal. Capturing a wild gopher tortoise and taking it to a new location that you think is appropriate is illegal. If you disagree with me, all I can do is refer you directly to the source:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=BROWSE&TITLE=16USCC35

 

[dtknow]

I agree, a photo to confirm it is not an escaped pet would be most interesting.

 

[El Viejo]

If I remember rightly from my herp class of many years ago, there are three species of gopher tortoises in the US: Gopherus polyphemus of the southeast US, the desert tortoise-Gopherus agassizii, and Berlandier's tortoise (or the Texas Tortoise)-Gopherus berlandieri. I believe that they are all federally protected and it is illegal to "mess" with them (harm harass, pursue, hunt, shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, or collect) in any way. Still, they're fascinating critters with some pretty amazing adaptations.

 

[Matt K]

So, if I know someone who can care for a tortoise, I mean to say I know someone who can legally. Same with native birds for that matter also (but a differnt person I don't know so well).

I am not offended by anyone. But it makes me nuts sometimes to read threads where people post things based on supposition and partial knowledge of a situation.

But I might point out that there are alot of assumptions made prior to this post, like:

...How much experience I or my friends have with reptiles and tortoises, which between four of us is over 110 years, and two are Phd's in herpetology, and one specializes in tortoises and the other teaches at a university.

...If there are permits involved or not. One of the persons I refer to is allowed federal permits to rehabilitate, reserve, and propogate for re-release anything native to the USA, but again with a focus on tortoises.

So the logical thing to me is when someone says "I can..." or "I know someone..." in a situation like this is to ask a question, like I did....

Last, being that I am in some regular contact with government agents for my own mistakes in the past, I am well aware of the law....

Its good that the animal in the OP was released- my whole point was that if such an animal were found, and the finder did not think the animal to be safe or know of a safe place to take it to, I chimed in to help out (all things considered)... (now here is the friendly jab-) not to have some youngster with a lack of experience italicize legal advice to me in a post without asking quesitons first- thats just rude.

 

[Shrike]

With all due respect, I don't believe I've been rude in this thread. I've made no assumptions or skeptical comments regarding your own experience and was happy to oblige when you asked for my credentials. I'm quite sure that your experience with tortoises surpasses mine, but I do have some relevant education and experience regarding the Endangered Species Act which I used to try and make a fact based contribution to the thread. Next time I'll leave out the italics

 

[cricket54]

Unfortunately I didn't take a picture of her, which was dumb. My husband was anxious for me to let her go outside. I had brought one of the speckled kingsnakes my dog found and played with inside to watch him to see if he was injured and it escaped. Saw him back behind the stove and then he showed up inside a "this end up" chair we had. The other folks in the house were not happy with me, and were scared. He was caught, and I let him go by the fence, so he crawled next door in the back of our neighbors yard. Their yard is wooded and the grass not cut much, so he could safely go on his way. The tortoise maybe in our backyard, but I haven't seen her. A lot of places to hide. I am on the lookout for them along the road though. My husband has seen them on his way to work at the Nuclear Plant near Port Gibson. The Mississippi is flooding (real late in the yr for this) and its driving snakes, turtles, deer, and aligators out to the roads and hwys. Lots of run over snakes on the road. Folks seem to run them over on purpose and thats sad. The Kingsnakes here are really cool! They would make great pets. We have rattlesnakes, copperheads, pigmy rattlers, and water moccasins, but I haven't seen any in our yard. I like the idea of the Kingsnakes being around for sure. Found a baby one last fall which I let go. Hope I don't see any rattlers too. My dog was bit by a Mohave green rattler last summer when I lived in CA. He was very very sick. He needed emergency care even though I had gotten my dogs the rattle snake shot. It only buys you time to get them to the emergency vet.

Sharon

 

[Shrike]

Oh well, keep that camera handy for the next time. It sounds like you had another nice find--I think speckled kings are absolutely gorgeous. And I'm glad your dog recovered from its ordeal last summer. A Mojave rattler bite is no joke!