Gigantea vs. Subsnipes Venom.

[BugToxin]

Hello Everyone,
I am relatively new to the boards here, and to the hobby of keeping/raising invertebrates as pets. I currently own four T's, and am thinking of adding a few more along with possibly a big pede. As I read through the old posts, and search the other sites on the net it seems that there is a great deal of uncertainty as to just how dangerous the various Scolopendras are. I'm sure that most of you, if not all, have already read the medical report of a newborn who was bitten by a gigantea. Just in case you haven't, here is the link.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0036-46652000000600007&lng=pt&nrm=iso


Anyway, I'm trying to decide if I should buy one of these two species, and I would perfer to buy the one that was a little less dangerous since I don't have any experience at all with these animals as of yet. Based on the fact that there is one documented death of a 7 year old girl from a subsnipes, and this little baby seemed to survive just fine after being bitten by a gigantea it would seem that the gigantea is a little less venomous. However, with only one case of each that I have been able to find, I'm not sure if there is enough information to make even a slightly reasonable conclusion here at all. So, what do you guys think? Is there a big difference? I know that the price of a gigantea is upwards of $300 here in the US, where several varieties of subsnipes can be had for about $40. If I could convince myself that the gigantea was not only a little bigger but a little less dangerous, I might be willing to hold out for the big guy. Let me know your thoughts.

Oh, just in case you are wondering. I do not ever intend to handle this animal or place myself in a situation where I might be bitten by mistake but as you know, bad things do sometimes happen even when people are careful.

 

[reverendsterlin]

If your a healthy adult, I wouldn't worry either way. But a husbandry or accident with a $40 pede compared to a $300 pede may make a difference to you (would with me lol). Why not start with a heros or polymorpha? They are definitely fun to watch feed. I have had a small polymorpha run up my arm but I never try to touch any of mine, no matter the species the bite would be painfull.
Rev

 

[danread]

I don't think there is any documented evdence about the difference in venom between the two species, so no-one is going to be able to give you a definitive answer. The one thing that is likely to be true is that the bigger the centipede, the larger the volume of venom that can be injected and the deeper the bite through which it can be delivered. As giganteas can get a fair bit bigger than subspinipes, i think a bite from a full grown adult gigantea may be worse. The bottom line is that a bite from either is going to be very painful, so i wouldnt let that factor come into your decision, go for which ever you prefer or can afford.

Personally i would go for the S. subspinipes as due to the price it makes a better starter pede. You can always get a gigantea at a later date if you decide you really do like pedes.

Cheers,

 

[fatbloke]

personally i would start with a cheaper pede till i got some expereince with the husbandry needs right and seeing your from the U.S you have a wider selection then us to choose from what about a heros sp:

john

 

[BugToxin]

personally i would start with a cheaper pede till i got some expereince with the husbandry needs right and seeing your from the U.S you have a wider selection then us to choose from what about a heros sp:

john

Actually I have considered the heros, but didn't think that they got as big as the subsnipes. In reading the various posts here it would seem that they may get to be just as long, but not nearly as bulky. Am I correct here? Unfortunately there isn't quite as much info on pedes as T's. I must admit though, the pictures I have seen of the Texas Redheads are fine looking creatures.

 

[Bob]

I have owned all the species mentioned here. I have two Giganteas now and are by far the best pet species but way to high of price. S.Subspinipes is still a good pet but the ones I have had get a little crazy when they hit the 9 inch mark or so. Very agresive IMO. I would go with any of the three color morfs of S. Heros. The do get around 9 inches or so but mine did not burrow and hide as much as the S.Subspinipes and are better looking IMO.......

S.Heros Castaneiceps is the easiest to find and do not need as moist conditions. I think the Heros Arizoninsis is probably the one to get!!
I think Krazy 8s has them.......


Bob

 

[BugToxin]

I have owned all the species mentioned here. I have two Giganteas now and are by far the best pet species but way to high of price. S.Subspinipes is still a good pet but the ones I have had get a little crazy when they hit the 9 inch mark or so. Very agresive IMO. I would go with any of the three color morfs of S. Heros. The do get around 9 inches or so but mine did not burrow and hide as much as the S.Subspinipes and are better looking IMO.......

S.Heros Castaneiceps is the easiest to find and do not need as moist conditions. I think the Heros Arizoninsis is probably the one to get!!
I think Krazy 8s has them.......


Bob

Thanks for the information. I hadn't checked Krazy 8's before and I hadn't heard of the heros arizoninsis untill I read your post. From the pictures I've seen so far, they do look nice. I have a new question though and perhaps I should have posted this on another thread, but just why are the S. gigantea so expensive? I know that Peru no longer lets us get our bugs from there, but aren't these native to some other countries in the same general region? Plus, what about captive breeding? Is the price situation on the gigantea just a short term thing while new baby pedes are made or are we in it for the long haul?

 

[Wade]

I think most of the countries they were being collected in are now closed, Peru was just the most recent to close. The ones we're seeing now only became available within the last year and are apparently being captive bred (or at least captive hatched) in Europe. By the time you figure in the transport and permit fees that it took to get them here, you're looking at a very expensive animal. Time will tell what the future holds, centipede breeding has a spotty history at best so far, but if captive breeding becomes establishe, prices should come down eventually.

Wade

 

[danread]

As Wade said, centipede breeding is a very hit and miss affair. There have been many documanted cases of wild caught female scolopendra laying and hatching eggs, but very few cases of centipedes actually breeding in captivity (Steven being the only person i know what has achieved it). Unfortunaltely i think that this has been a real barrier to the popularity of the centipede hobby. One of the really interesting aspects of the tarantula hobby is being able to breed and sell the offspring that your spiders produce, but it will probably never happen to the same degree with centipedes.

The fact that there is so much unknown about centipedes is one of the aspects that makes me prefer it to the tarantula hobby, i like the fact that i can't just check on a dealers list and pick one of hundreds of different species available. At the moment in the UK there are probably only about two species commonly available on the dealers lists, Scolopendra subspinipes and Scolopendra morsitans. You really have to hunt around to get some of the rarer or less common species, which makes having a large and diverse collection a real achievement.

 

[Drosera123]

I think most of the countries they were being collected in are now closed, Peru was just the most recent to close. The ones we're seeing now only became available within the last year and are apparently being captive bred (or at least captive hatched) in Europe. By the time you figure in the transport and permit fees that it took to get them here, you're looking at a very expensive animal. Time will tell what the future holds, centipede breeding has a spotty history at best so far, but if captive breeding becomes establishe, prices should come down eventually.

Wade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not entirerly. Learning a few things from a few people in foreign countries, what ever the wholesale price american buyers pay from europe depending on the species, they are sold here for more than double of their actual value. So I think i'll stick to trading/buying directly from Europe and South America since everybodys "world" over here is so much more costly for the bugs I like. I doubt anyway that the pedes are cb, since alot of wc's are shipped regularly.
Steve

 

[Wade]

"Actual value" is determined by what people are willing to pay, and nothing more. Scaracity makes them more valuable here as long as Americans are willing to pay. I paid $35 for a S. gigantea back in '99.

If talking about getting S. gigantea directly from the country of origin, that's great if you can do it but the USFWS will view it as smuggling if you get caught. I'm not passing judgement, but talking about it on a public forum is probably not a great idea.

Wade

 

[danread]

I doubt anyway that the pedes are cb, since alot of wc's are shipped regularly.

If by CB you mean captive born, then i think you you are wrong, there was a fairly large number of captive born pedes sold over the US, mainly by the fact that there were a lot of pedes all of a similar size and in very good condition, not something you would get from wild caught pedes. The pedes sold at last years BTS by Vinmann were captive born i think. If you mean captive bred, then no, i dont think there have been any documented cases of captive bred gigantea (although i'm sure steven is working on it )

Cheers,