getting a dog. any advise reguarding breed?

[K-TRAIN]

so i owned two dogs before, my first died of a infection, and the second one died of cancer. its been about 1-2 years since i owned a dog. and im looking for a dog that will keep me active, as in going for walks and playing and generally just getting me out of the house while having a companion at the same time.

id like a breed that i could bring fishing with me, either on land or on my aluminum boat, and something that i can have in my truck as well without problems. i also want something thats loyal and smart. just a quick learner.

ive decided that i personally like border collies, austrailian shepards, and shetland sheep dogs. and also geman shepards (im not sure if i could own one though, seeing how my mom is afraid of them and they always seem to listen to my dad since he has a strong voice) but im looking more into border collies, because i like there looks and just what i looked up about them makes them seem like the kind of dog i want.

now, my other dogs were golden retrievers so i have no experience with border collies.

can anyone give me advise on if a border collie would fit the description of what i want? if not is there any other breeds that might be better?

 

[Kevbug]

Well i have a Border collie and trust me monkey see monkey do is the game shes very smart she knows how to pull out the chair and get on my table but you have to keep persistent with training them and pretty strict don't make them go into the water when they aren't a year and a half old because they will be scared of the water and they are very submissive so they won't hurt a thing unless you were attacked that'd be the only way and they are VERY active love walks love playing around

 

[Kevbug]

So yes they do fit the description

 

[K-TRAIN]

Well i have a Border collie and trust me monkey see monkey do is the game shes very smart she knows how to pull out the chair and get on my table but you have to keep persistent with training them and pretty strict don't make them go into the water when they aren't a year and a half old because they will be scared of the water and they are very submissive so they won't hurt a thing unless you were attacked that'd be the only way and they are VERY active love walks love playing around

would the water thing include having them on a boat? or do you mean putting a puppy in the water?

 

[Kevbug]

putting a puppy in the water i dont think they'd mind goin on a boat it'd just have to be often so they get use to it

 

[K-TRAIN]

putting a puppy in the water i dont think they'd mind goin on a boat it'd just have to be often so they get use to it

thats what i thought thanks

 

[Kevbug]

no problem buddy

 

[BeckyB]

Go for a border collie. I've had my large share of experience with them and they are the easiest to train and the happiest to do everything you want to do. They love swimming, boating, hiking, lazing around, playing fetch, wrestling and are incredibly smart. Make sure you give them an outlet for their energy on a regular basis tho or you will have a dog finding its own amusement in your house.

 

[Kathy]

Go to the pound and pick the ugliest mutt there. They are always the most loving.

 

[NikiP]

Seconding what BeckyB said about having an outlet. They are not happy too be just laying around. We family had a red smooth hair male who became an absolute pest because he didn't have a job.

So he turned to destroying tires, trying to herd my sister & I (not cute when there are teeth involved), & chasing anything else that moved. We finally found him a home where he was better suited.

Don't discount mutts I currently have a dachshund x australian shepard mix. He has the body of a dachshund (well, a much larger one! I'd say more toward corgie size, but proportionate.) His mind, color, & athletics are all aussie! He loves love loves to go in the water after thrown objects & will play fetch on land for hours.

 

[JTC5150]

Border collies are great dogs and Kathy is right too! My mutt is the best dog I have had.

 

[8by8]

Go to the pound and pick the ugliest mutt there. They are always the most loving.

I agree with the pound or shelter thing. You can find a really loving dog with shots, fixed, and in perfect health for around 100 bucks. You can't go wrong for at least looking.

 

[pitbulllady]

I'm not knocking "pound puppies", but it's a total crap-shoot to pick out a dog from the shelter, especially if you are looking for specific behavioral traits. You will have absolutely no way to know the dog you get from a shelter will like to be around water at all, or, if it's a puppy, whether it will get way too big to ride in the truck with you(and I do NOT like the notion of dogs in pick-up beds unless they are confined, especially after running over a dog that just fell out of one when I was a college kid-left a bad impression on me). If you are wanting a dog that exhibits specific behaviors, it's best to go with a purebred and go to a breeder who has the parents, so you can get some idea of THEIR behavior and personalities. With a pound dog, you might or might not get what you want, and you might wind up with a nightmare. While there are folks who lucked up and got a great dog, they might have just been wanting a dog that was a friendly companion, and not been looking for anything else. I do know many people who have gotten dogs from shelters only to find themselves with a real problem after they got home with it. Dogs do not show their "true colors" in the stressful environment of a shelter, and all too often those problems show up when the dog has had time to get its bearings in its new home. Behavioral issues are the #1 reason why dogs wind up in shelters, anyway(at least until the economy tanked, and that reason has probably been replaced by "family/owner lost home and had to give up the pet"). Many of those "issues" could be just normal dog behavior that the new owner was not prepared for due to unrealistic expectations of what to expect from the dog, but some are genuine problems that might prove difficult for even an experienced dog owner to handle. You also can't judge a dog's breed by appearance, and just because a shelter says a dog is part this or mostly that, unless it came in with some sort of verification as to breed, you might wind up with a lookalike that does not act anything like the breed you had in mind. If Border Collies appeal to you, then find someone who has Border Collies. If it's a real "water dog" you want, you might want to consider one of the Sporting breeds instead, especially one of the Retrievers, and if grooming is not an issue, you might even want to look into one of the Standard Poodles, and no, I'm not kidding. Those are very intelligent, no-nonsense working/hunting dogs; there is just that issue of grooming that coat to keep it manageable, which is the only reason they were replaced by other "wash 'n wear" Retriever breeds in the first place.

Do your research, and focus on the NEGATIVE aspects of the breeds that interest you moreso than the things that would be positive, and if you can live with those or find ways to handle them, take it from there. Most intelligent breeds are also very energetic and need an outlet for that energy, and being intelligent does NOT necessarily transfer to being obedient, and intelligent dogs are also more likely to challenge your authority at some point, especially if you do not exhibit good "pack leadership" skills.

pitbulllady

 

[jenniferinny]

Every single dog I've ever gotten with one exception were from animal shelters.

The purebred dog from the breeder had just as many issues that required training as any of the rescues I've ever taken in. In all reality, most of the dogs at the shelter are there because someone got a puppy and then failed to train it properly. There are a couple truly poorly adjusted dogs there that will never be good dogs, but, most of them are normal dogs who were just owned by people to stupid to train a dog.

Now, if you want to train a herding dog for the purpose of herding, then yes, definitely go buy one from someone who actually competes in herding. If you want a bird dog, then buy from a breeder that raises bird dogs. If you want a show dog, then buy from a show breeder and so on.

If you just want a friendly, happy dog, then check out your local shelter because they get spades of those.. lol

In all reality, just about every single dog is trainable. I have yet to adopt a dog that wasn't easily trained with one exception, but, I knew she was nuts before I adopted her. I wanted a project and she has fit the bill admirably for years.. lol

Otherwise though, if a dog seems too stupid to train, then the problem is usually you, not the dog. If your motivated and willing to try different methods and practice regularly with your dog, then any normal dog shouldn't be a problem for you.

When you get a puppy, they are very easy to train. BUT, most puppies will hit a teenage stage at around 9 months old where they 'forget' almost everything you've taught them. That stage will be frustrating and will probably last till your dogs around two years old. This is especially true with any of the active dogs you are interested in.

That's actually why most dogs at the animal shelter are between the ages of 9 months and 2 years. People just don't understand why their well-mannered pup has become a disobedient monster. Instead of trying different training methods or practicing more, they just assume the dog is untrainable and off to the pound they go.

I pretty much discount individual breed traits anymore. It's easier to just group by type and then there will still be exceptions to the type. Of course, still know ALL the negatives of the breed or combination of breeds you plan to get.

If you expect them to have ALL of the bad traits and prepare accordingly, then all you can be is pleasantly surprised.

Herding dogs for instance are active, occasionally nippy towards ankles, destructive when bored, need a daily outlet for activity for both body and mind. Flyball and agility are both good for herding dogs. Without activity, they can be neurotic messes. There's nothing worse then a herding dog that's been raised on a tie-out. I have one of those. I adopted her from certain euthanasia when she was finally surrendered by her owner that kept her on a 10 foot tie out for the entire first 4 years of her life. She has separation anxiety and quite a fear of any loud noises. While some dogs will cower during a thunderstorm, she used to try to chew through doors. She is actually missing a lot of her teeth from trying to chew her way off the chain she was kept on. She doesn't know how to play or how to interact correctly with other dogs. Because she was never treated for fleas and just allowed to remain infested, she has flea allergies that are severe along with food allergies that were probably triggered by the severe flea allergies. When she was surrendered to the shelter, she was completely bald. Even she is not that bad and it was obvious that she was not 'all there' at the shelter. Most people who meet her now, 5 years later, think she's a pretty normal dog. BUT, it did take a lot of effort to get her there and keep her there.

In contrast, we have had 7 other rescue dogs that just had the typical issues associated with not being trained. Most of them were fully trained in under 3 months.

Please note though, I am not one of those that believes that all dog breeding is wrong. I just think most people just want a pet, in which case the animal shelter is a great place to get one. Unfortunately, you may find that it is quite a drive to find a responsible dog breeder in the breed that you want. A responsible breeder breeds for a purpose other then just pets, they breed for conformation, for herding, for hunting and so on. If you buy from a breeder that is just breeding for pets, then that's as much of a crapshoot as getting a dog from a shelter if not more so. Usually, by the time a dogs 2 years old most of the major disorders have shown up somewhat. When you buy a puppy from a less then responsible breeder, you could be looking at surgeries for hip dysplasia, luxating patella and so on.

Don't forget to keep lifespan in mind. My collie mix is around 10 and still VERY active. A couple years of flyball and agility don't sound so bad, but when your thinking of 10 years of keeping an active dog busy, well, that sounds like more of a job.. lol
Thankfully, my collie finally has a sturdy, goofy enough doggy companion where her odd behaviors don't escalate interactions to a fight. So, she's finally burning off some energy with another dog. Which is awesome because my pregnancy has had me stuck in bed way more then I want to be.

My next dog will be a big ole lazy hound mix like my brothers redbone/lab mix. She loves just sleeping in the sunshine, but she's sturdy enough for a long hike too. She plays in short bursts, but, after about a half hour she's tired of that nonsense..

 

[K-TRAIN]

Every single dog I've ever gotten with one exception were from animal shelters.

The purebred dog from the breeder had just as many issues that required training as any of the rescues I've ever taken in. In all reality, most of the dogs at the shelter are there because someone got a puppy and then failed to train it properly. There are a couple truly poorly adjusted dogs there that will never be good dogs, but, most of them are normal dogs who were just owned by people to stupid to train a dog.

Now, if you want to train a herding dog for the purpose of herding, then yes, definitely go buy one from someone who actually competes in herding. If you want a bird dog, then buy from a breeder that raises bird dogs. If you want a show dog, then buy from a show breeder and so on.

If you just want a friendly, happy dog, then check out your local shelter because they get spades of those.. lol

In all reality, just about every single dog is trainable. I have yet to adopt a dog that wasn't easily trained with one exception, but, I knew she was nuts before I adopted her. I wanted a project and she has fit the bill admirably for years.. lol

Otherwise though, if a dog seems too stupid to train, then the problem is usually you, not the dog. If your motivated and willing to try different methods and practice regularly with your dog, then any normal dog shouldn't be a problem for you.

When you get a puppy, they are very easy to train. BUT, most puppies will hit a teenage stage at around 9 months old where they 'forget' almost everything you've taught them. That stage will be frustrating and will probably last till your dogs around two years old. This is especially true with any of the active dogs you are interested in.

That's actually why most dogs at the animal shelter are between the ages of 9 months and 2 years. People just don't understand why their well-mannered pup has become a disobedient monster. Instead of trying different training methods or practicing more, they just assume the dog is untrainable and off to the pound they go.

I pretty much discount individual breed traits anymore. It's easier to just group by type and then there will still be exceptions to the type. Of course, still know ALL the negatives of the breed or combination of breeds you plan to get.

If you expect them to have ALL of the bad traits and prepare accordingly, then all you can be is pleasantly surprised.

Herding dogs for instance are active, occasionally nippy towards ankles, destructive when bored, need a daily outlet for activity for both body and mind. Flyball and agility are both good for herding dogs. Without activity, they can be neurotic messes. There's nothing worse then a herding dog that's been raised on a tie-out. I have one of those. I adopted her from certain euthanasia when she was finally surrendered by her owner that kept her on a 10 foot tie out for the entire first 4 years of her life. She has separation anxiety and quite a fear of any loud noises. While some dogs will cower during a thunderstorm, she used to try to chew through doors. She is actually missing a lot of her teeth from trying to chew her way off the chain she was kept on. She doesn't know how to play or how to interact correctly with other dogs. Because she was never treated for fleas and just allowed to remain infested, she has flea allergies that are severe along with food allergies that were probably triggered by the severe flea allergies. When she was surrendered to the shelter, she was completely bald. Even she is not that bad and it was obvious that she was not 'all there' at the shelter. Most people who meet her now, 5 years later, think she's a pretty normal dog. BUT, it did take a lot of effort to get her there and keep her there.

In contrast, we have had 7 other rescue dogs that just had the typical issues associated with not being trained. Most of them were fully trained in under 3 months.

Please note though, I am not one of those that believes that all dog breeding is wrong. I just think most people just want a pet, in which case the animal shelter is a great place to get one. Unfortunately, you may find that it is quite a drive to find a responsible dog breeder in the breed that you want. A responsible breeder breeds for a purpose other then just pets, they breed for conformation, for herding, for hunting and so on. If you buy from a breeder that is just breeding for pets, then that's as much of a crapshoot as getting a dog from a shelter if not more so. Usually, by the time a dogs 2 years old most of the major disorders have shown up somewhat. When you buy a puppy from a less then responsible breeder, you could be looking at surgeries for hip dysplasia, luxating patella and so on.

Don't forget to keep lifespan in mind. My collie mix is around 10 and still VERY active. A couple years of flyball and agility don't sound so bad, but when your thinking of 10 years of keeping an active dog busy, well, that sounds like more of a job.. lol
Thankfully, my collie finally has a sturdy, goofy enough doggy companion where her odd behaviors don't escalate interactions to a fight. So, she's finally burning off some energy with another dog. Which is awesome because my pregnancy has had me stuck in bed way more then I want to be.

My next dog will be a big ole lazy hound mix like my brothers redbone/lab mix. She loves just sleeping in the sunshine, but she's sturdy enough for a long hike too. She plays in short bursts, but, after about a half hour she's tired of that nonsense..

there are certain reasons why im not going to a shelter for a dog.

one would be that i want a puppy that i can train. id rather start with a puppy.

another would be theres mostly pitbulls/german shepards/fancy dogs in the pounds around me.

one of my most important reasons is i dont like how they run around my area. they charge you so much money in most cases to get the dog (understandable) but then they have to come and check your home, and most wont adopt to you unless there a certain distance away, and then they pretty much tell you how they want you to raise the puppy, and in some even pick out the dog they say is right for you.

i dont think pounds are a bad idea, i like the idea of adopting dogs, but what im looking for i dont think ill find in the spca's around me.

I'm not knocking "pound puppies", but it's a total crap-shoot to pick out a dog from the shelter, especially if you are looking for specific behavioral traits. You will have absolutely no way to know the dog you get from a shelter will like to be around water at all, or, if it's a puppy, whether it will get way too big to ride in the truck with you(and I do NOT like the notion of dogs in pick-up beds unless they are confined, especially after running over a dog that just fell out of one when I was a college kid-left a bad impression on me). If you are wanting a dog that exhibits specific behaviors, it's best to go with a purebred and go to a breeder who has the parents, so you can get some idea of THEIR behavior and personalities. With a pound dog, you might or might not get what you want, and you might wind up with a nightmare. While there are folks who lucked up and got a great dog, they might have just been wanting a dog that was a friendly companion, and not been looking for anything else. I do know many people who have gotten dogs from shelters only to find themselves with a real problem after they got home with it. Dogs do not show their "true colors" in the stressful environment of a shelter, and all too often those problems show up when the dog has had time to get its bearings in its new home. Behavioral issues are the #1 reason why dogs wind up in shelters, anyway(at least until the economy tanked, and that reason has probably been replaced by "family/owner lost home and had to give up the pet"). Many of those "issues" could be just normal dog behavior that the new owner was not prepared for due to unrealistic expectations of what to expect from the dog, but some are genuine problems that might prove difficult for even an experienced dog owner to handle. You also can't judge a dog's breed by appearance, and just because a shelter says a dog is part this or mostly that, unless it came in with some sort of verification as to breed, you might wind up with a lookalike that does not act anything like the breed you had in mind. If Border Collies appeal to you, then find someone who has Border Collies. If it's a real "water dog" you want, you might want to consider one of the Sporting breeds instead, especially one of the Retrievers, and if grooming is not an issue, you might even want to look into one of the Standard Poodles, and no, I'm not kidding. Those are very intelligent, no-nonsense working/hunting dogs; there is just that issue of grooming that coat to keep it manageable, which is the only reason they were replaced by other "wash 'n wear" Retriever breeds in the first place.

Do your research, and focus on the NEGATIVE aspects of the breeds that interest you moreso than the things that would be positive, and if you can live with those or find ways to handle them, take it from there. Most intelligent breeds are also very energetic and need an outlet for that energy, and being intelligent does NOT necessarily transfer to being obedient, and intelligent dogs are also more likely to challenge your authority at some point, especially if you do not exhibit good "pack leadership" skills.

pitbulllady

i had two golden retrievers, and i really dont want to get another retreiver if i dont have to, because there prone to cancer and ive seen how they can be, so id like a different dog. both my goldens didnt make it to five years old.

and you mention not liking dogs in pick up beds, dont worry im not the kind of person to do that unless im in the back restraining the dog and the vehicle is moving 25 mph or less. i was referring to the dog being in the back seat of my pickup or the passenger seat if i can train it to sit still.

 

[jenniferinny]

I can understand some points there.. We don't have too many shelters now in this area that do home checks, but, the smaller rescues do. Back when I volunteered I did a few home checks. Overall, they are just making sure it's safe and that the dog won't be living in an old dog house in the backyard by itself.
Most people pass home checks easily..

I don't know how much you consider a lot to adopt. Around here, our local shelters range between about $70-$100. BUT, when you consider that's how much it costs for just a neuter at the cheapest vet in town and they all come neutered, it's really a bargain by comparison. Compared to buying a puppy and then neutering it's definitely more reasonable.

Having 2 dogs only make it to the age of 5 isn't great.. Were those purchased from a breeder? Our oldest dog was a golden retriever lab mix that made it in good health to 17. I've never heard of Golden's being particularly cancer prone. Boxers and Dobermans are well known for it for example, but I've never heard of Goldens being that prone to it. I've seen lots of ancient Goldens that have benign lumps and bumps everywhere, but, haven't ever heard of any others that died that young of cancer.

Were they from the same breeder? Sounds like a really bad line.

Our first two dogs were very long lived ( a lab mix and golden mix), they went to the vet when they needed it, but never got shots and ate a lot of people food rather then dog food. My next two dogs, a Boxer and a Great Dane made it to 10 and 7 respectively. They had their shots every year and lived on dog food. They both were put down due to cancer.

All my current dogs haven't had any vaccines other then the 3 year rabies since they hit age 3. My youngest dog is 7, my oldest dog is 10 and there isn't a lump or bump on any of them. They also haven't been fed dog food, they've eaten a raw diet. It's odd really, since the Boxer and Great Dane started getting benign bumps at around age 5.

I wonder how much of it is diet and vaccine related. Don't get me wrong, I think vaccines are valuable, but I think the same 8 vaccines every single year for an adult dog may be overkill..

Whatever you decide, research first. I understand that pound dogs aren't for everyone.

 

[K-TRAIN]

I can understand some points there.. We don't have too many shelters now in this area that do home checks, but, the smaller rescues do. Back when I volunteered I did a few home checks. Overall, they are just making sure it's safe and that the dog won't be living in an old dog house in the backyard by itself.
Most people pass home checks easily..

I don't know how much you consider a lot to adopt. Around here, our local shelters range between about $70-$100. BUT, when you consider that's how much it costs for just a neuter at the cheapest vet in town and they all come neutered, it's really a bargain by comparison. Compared to buying a puppy and then neutering it's definitely more reasonable.

Having 2 dogs only make it to the age of 5 isn't great.. Were those purchased from a breeder? Our oldest dog was a golden retriever lab mix that made it in good health to 17. I've never heard of Golden's being particularly cancer prone. Boxers and Dobermans are well known for it for example, but I've never heard of Goldens being that prone to it. I've seen lots of ancient Goldens that have benign lumps and bumps everywhere, but, haven't ever heard of any others that died that young of cancer.

Were they from the same breeder? Sounds like a really bad line.

Our first two dogs were very long lived ( a lab mix and golden mix), they went to the vet when they needed it, but never got shots and ate a lot of people food rather then dog food. My next two dogs, a Boxer and a Great Dane made it to 10 and 7 respectively. They had their shots every year and lived on dog food. They both were put down due to cancer.

All my current dogs haven't had any vaccines other then the 3 year rabies since they hit age 3. My youngest dog is 7, my oldest dog is 10 and there isn't a lump or bump on any of them. They also haven't been fed dog food, they've eaten a raw diet. It's odd really, since the Boxer and Great Dane started getting benign bumps at around age 5.

I wonder how much of it is diet and vaccine related. Don't get me wrong, I think vaccines are valuable, but I think the same 8 vaccines every single year for an adult dog may be overkill..

Whatever you decide, research first. I understand that pound dogs aren't for everyone.

ive seen various prices but they range from $50- $200 to adopt.

well i looked it up about the cancer too and according to what i found goldens are highest risk.

i got one dog from a breeder in lancaster pennsylvania. that was my first dog and he died at 9 months old because he was a chewer, and he ended up needing surgery and had a infection and didnt make it.

my other dog was from a breeder in new jersey and had cancer at 3-4 years of age. his lymphnodes were swollen thats how we found out.

neither of my dogs went to the vet often, but they did get there shots when needed and all that. if they seemed to be having problems i took them to the vet.

 

[skippy]

I work on a charter fishing boat here in Cali and I have been bringing my ACD out with me almost everyday since she was 3 months old. She loves it, if I leave her at home she gives me the stinkeye she's a little mare than 2 now and she's just as at home on the boat as in the woods. You just gotta keep an eye on them until after a year of age cause they can be kinda clumsy as pups(keep the right size net on board)

 

[ZergFront]

+1 for an Australian shepherd. Very intelligent, loyal and high energy. He or she would definately enjoy going to the outdoors with you. There are also very lovable aussie mixed breeds, too (mixed breeds are usually more sturdy than pure breeds. Five years or less still sounds strange for a golden).

I like that retrievers usually love the water but I'm not about to suggest a yellow, black or chocolate Lab. They can be stubborn so they're kind of difficult to train.

 

[pitbulllady]

I was going to suggest a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, which are generally a much healthier breed than Goldens, which have suffered from extreme popularity and breeding exclusively for show ring characteristics, which are contrary to what would make a Golden a good working/sporting dog, BUT it's difficult to fit ANY Retriever breed on the seat of the average pickup unless you have either a huge pickup OR an unusually small Retriever! Ditto for most Standard Poodles(which I DO consider a Retriever breed); mine weighed 93 pounds and stood 27 inches at the shoulder, not counting hair, so he hardly would have fit on the seat beside me in my SUV!

Have you considered this: An American Pit Bull Terrier, or are they allowed where you live? Right size, most don't mind water and LOVE to spend time with you 24/7 if they can. They are very trainable, actually, though like Border Collies they are also high-energy dogs that absolutely need an outlet for that energy. I used to ride mine in the car or truck with me and they loved to ride "shotgun". You won't have the hair issues that most of the breeds you mentioned will have, if lots and lots of shedding is an issue(some people don't mind it. I'm not one of those people). IF you can find REAL APBT's, not those huge waddling blue hippos that many are still trying to pass off as APBT's(if the average adult can't easily pick the dog up and carry it, it's NOT an APBT, no matter what it says on the "papers") and get to spend time with the parents AND the breeder, it would certainly be worth the time and effort, unless where you live has BSL in effect.

pitbulllady