Geochelone sulcata

[Psycho]

 

[Psycho]

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[Psycho]

 

[Psycho]

 

[Psycho]

 

[Mister Internet]

Hope you all are in it for the long haul. Sulcatas can live 80 years and get to be 200 lbs... are you planning on moving somewhere someday where you can give him at least a 15'X15' pen?

They are really pretty animals though... I could just never get something that's going to live longer than I am.

 

[Psycho]

 

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by Psycho
Ps: Any warnings about a free roaming tortoise? ;P

I have a feeling that any warnings any of us would give would fall on deaf ears, based on your receptiveness towards last warnings. You've already justified it and decided on it in your mind, so any attempts to talk you out of it will just be met with, "Yeah, but...". We've all got better things to do than diatribe against someone who is only going to dismiss it with his own defense.

I will tell you my personal feelings, which are not the views of Arachnopets nor endorsed in any way by such.

I think that Sulcata tortises and their ilk are about the pinnacle of human selfishness when it comes to captive reptiles/amphibians. You're talking about an animal that will need a cage the size of a very large garden shed or small garage by the time they begin to approach adult size, and animal that lives 80 years in less-than-ideal conditions and could easily live 100-150 years if kept in ideal conditions, an animal that starts eating when it wakes up and stops when it goes to sleep, and an animal that is so incredibly strong that a small 25-pounder can re-arranged your furniture and punch nasty holes in your sheetrock walls.

All I was alluding to was did you consider EVERYTHING that goes into keeping this animal, or was it a decision made at the vendor's table? Regardless of whether or not your kids love it as much as you and your wife do, you're effectively strapping THEM with the immense expense and housing required by this animal until they get old and die and pass it on to their kids, who will get old and die and pass it on to the great-grandchildren you may never meet. You really want three future generations of your family to be stuck with increased heating bills, extremely demanding food and housing requirements, and a pet that doesn't form any emotional bonds of which to speak? There are MANY other species of tortoise that average a foot long as adults and live "only" 25 years or so... why not one of those?

I have no problem with large pythons, etc, simply because they can reasonably be expected to pass on during the lifetime of a middle-aged adult human... not something you have to strap the kids with. However, what makes you think that your kids would CHOOSE to have this huge responsibility if it wasn' t effectively forced upon them? And if you're not going to leave it in their hands, what makes you think that zoos and reptile rescue organizations need ANOTHER Sulcata tortoise?

Anyway, I'm done. Hopefully you considered ALL these things and the many more that will go along with keeping this animal for the remainder of its natural life. Hopefully you decided ahead of time that this was the animal you wanted, despite the research being overwhelmingly against the decision. Hopefully, this wasn't a snap decision made at the table of a vendor trying to make $25. Hopefully, but I'm not convinced. I will leave you with a couple of links I hope you read before you got it:

http://www.newsday.com/features/col...,0,5332711.column?coll=ny-features-columnists

Sulcata reality check test

 

[Phillip]

Very well put.

Phil

 

[Valael]

Meh. Seemed needlessly abrasive. But I'm easily irritated, I guess.


I mean, was the whole "I could give you suggestions but you wouldn't listen to them" bit needed?

And if you feel it was, care to share *why* it was needed?

Obviously you don't HAVE to explain anything to me, I'm just curious.

 

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by Valael
Meh. Seemed needlessly abrasive. But I'm easily irritated, I guess.

I mean, was the whole "I could give you suggestions but you wouldn't listen to them" bit needed?

And if you feel it was, care to share *why* it was needed?

Obviously you don't HAVE to explain anything to me, I'm just curious.

I guess I didn't use enough smiley faces... I need to learn to click on some of those damn smileys when I'm trying not to hurt someone's feelings.

The whole, "I could give you suggestions but you wouldn't listen to them" bit is putting words in my mouth. I qualified it in the very first sentence by saying I was based my assumptions purely on his responses in past threads, namely the now infamous burm/kid thread. The eye-rolling smiley after asking for warnings on a free-roaming tortoise means he almost hopes we have a problem with it, so he'll be able to tell us why it's OK and why we're judgemental for thinking otherwise. These were just my impressions, and I think I made that clear. I think it's pretty clear by now that he's gonna do what he's decided to do, regardless of input from any of the members here, even those more experienced than himself, so that's why I said it the way I did. Hopefully that clears that up a little better... if not, then yeah, you probably are too easily irritated.

Psycho, I hope I didn't offend you with my above post, as such was not my intent. I feel that 99% of human beings require not ADVICE, but just asking the right QUESTIONS. I was merely trying to put the whole prospect of owning one of these animals into perspective, and get you to think about the future ramifications if you hadn't already. There are stories of people who have sustained tens of thousands of dollars' damage to their houses and foundations from these animals, not to mention food bills in the thousands of dollars per year as adults, and vet bills in the hundreds per visit, provided there's even one in your state who's worked on a Sulcata (did you check that out either?). Yes, they are very pretty and insanely cute as babies, and I honestly don't mean to rain on your parade. However, I'd hate to you and your strapped with several lifetimes of required care for an animal that has no business being sold to recreational hobbyists in the first place.

 

[kellygirl]

Wow, Tom! Thanks for all those links and your well-thought out points. If only there were a thread like this for SO many other animals....... goodness, sounds like a Sulcata is a good pet for about 0.00001% of the population! Hope Psycho fits the profile... otherwise, I feel sorry for the tortoise and for the people that will end up having to cover for a disastrous impulse buy.

-Kelly

 

[Psycho]

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by Psycho
And with the cold wisconsin winters.. he'll just have to learn to like roaming the basement. (Or whatever floor he thinks he likes the best. Can't really make a stubborn 200lb animal move where you want them too.)

I think this is what set people off. What you said doesn't sound very well-planned.

Bry

 

[MrBaronIsBack]

Not very well planned is an understatement for what Psycho is doing. I'm not even going go get into the other stunts he pulls because Scott has asked for THAT particular thread not to be discussed anymore. I will say this though, noone but NOONE living in an area that measures it's annual snowfall not in inchest but in FEET! has any business owning an animal that hails from near the equator and grows to 200lbs unless their personal income is in the SIX FIGURE RANGE! I'm 26 years old and I haven't behaved as immaturely toward animals as Psycho does since I was 12!!! People like him are the reason for the constant regulation and restriction of the exotic animals hobby. I will make me exstatic when the USDA steps in and finally restricts the keeping of large animals like the G. Sulcata to PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY! Irresponsibility will inevitably be the total DEATH of our hobby. Sorry Scott if you find my remarks to be overly chafing, but the truth is the truth.

 

[Psycho]

First off.... I have a permit. In our city you need a pet fanciers license for owning more than 4 animals total of any kind (discluding fish of course). This includes them coming to your house before you get the permit and allows them to come to your house any time to "check up" on the animals. Secondly, if any of you "pro" animal keepers think that I treat my animals that badly then come to my house and then judge me. Thirdly... what was this thread about again?:? :?


~~~Psycho~~~

 

[Phillip]

What's up with the deleting of posts when someone questions the judgement involved?

Perhaps you fail to see why folks would be concerned but your location is far from the best for sulcatta to live in as well as this being a species that is purchased by many people that haven't a clue what they are getting into. It is only normal for others to be concerned over such a purchase when they have the animals best interest in mind.

Phil

 

[MrBaronIsBack]

Amen, Phil. I'd go so far as to say that noone with an average winter temperature below freezing would be able to own a G. Sulcatta if the USDA were issuing the permits. Even though it is on my list of most desired animals, I wouldn't even get one when I was living in Alabama, now that I'm in Michigan, I don't even consider it a possibillity, much less an option.

I don't clam to be a pro either, but I do make myself AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE when I pick out an animal that I want to keep. Maybe that makes me an elitist, but I consider that an asset when it comes to the fact that neglect is ABUSE, and in this age of information ignorance is neglect when it comes to the abundance of information available on this particular species. I honestly don't care if I've offended you or not, Psycho, because you made a selfish decision in purchasing that animal, obvously not accounting for its size when planning out the housing requirements. I'm done with my rant, you're not worth any more of my time.

Ignorance such as this should be illegal.

 

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by MrBaronIsBack
I honestly don't care if I've offended you or not, Psycho, because you made a selfish decision in purchasing that animal, obvously not accounting for its size when planning out the housing requirements. I'm done with my rant, you're not worth any more of my time.

Ignorance such as this should be illegal.

MBIB,

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but if you're going to be that obtuse and accusatory with people, you're not welcome to share it here. You'll notice many people have contributed to this thread and gotten their points across without being outright nasty, myself included. Psycho actually responded to you a lot more civilly than I would have, I see no reason for your venom.

Sure, I gave him a little grief, but it was just in the form of questions and such, I wasn't outright accusing him of being willfully negligent, I was just expressing concern that his previous cold reception of other experienced hobbyists' input might indicate that his cavalier attitude in this situation was a bit misguided.

Please try to kep it civil in the future.

 

[Craig]

More "herp" related stupidity

Ok..... When I read the first thread about the big python with the kid I felt like you had good intentions, but you were just not well informed. This is statement is ridiculous:

And with the cold wisconsin winters.. he'll just have to learn to like roaming the basement. (Or whatever floor he thinks he likes the best. Can't really make a stubborn 200lb animal move where you want them too

There are a couple things that concern me.

A) your lack of logic when buying big reptiles

B) I pray you NEVER get a hold of a crocodilian or a venomous snake

C) The potential impact to the reptile keeping hobby

GRRR!!! What is going on?? Psycho It seems like some of the animals you own were not bought using rational adult thinking. I think the manner of thinking here is very childish. I partially blame the pet trade which indorses buying reptiles on impulse. Please consider the animals feelings. Think long term. There is a good article in 2002 reptiles about Sulcatas that maybe you should read. Do think about the welfare of your child when buying pets?