G. rosea red and G. rosea pink (Porteri) - do these mate?

[Sharno]

Do different color forms of rosea mate, or is it proper to only breed within their own color forms?

Is it acceptable/ethical -- and, are the tarantulas even receptive?

Thanks.

 

[PanzoN88]

Do different color forms of rosea mate, or is it proper to only breed within their own color forms?

Is it acceptable/ethical -- and, are the tarantulas even receptive?

Thanks.

i have wondered about this myself even though i would never breed them since they are too common.

 

[ratluvr76]

physically they can mate within the same genus, Grammostola to Grammostola, Pamphobetus to Pamphobetus, Avicularia to Avicularia etc etc However it really is frowned upon within the hobby just because it is hard enough to figure out the genus species etc without muddying the waters so to speak. It's better to keep the individual species pure. I personally wouldn't breed any tarantula until I knew for certain that I was breeding two of the same species.

 

[miss moxie]

Yes plus I've heard debate that it's not actually a color form, rather it could be a different species. Which you could still breed them, but it would be a hybrd. Not one red rosie and one grey rosie mixed into a red-grey rosie.

 

[Sharno]

Yes plus I've heard debate that it's not actually a color form, rather it could be a different species. Which you could still breed them, but it would be a hybrd. Not one red rosie and one grey rosie mixed into a red-grey rosie.

I guess this makes sense, and I have read similar, and people just seem to shrug and say this is the way it is.

Now does that technically mean you can breed two brachypelma? I know that is NOT APPROVED or kosher, nor is it my intent, but is that the same thing: grammastola to grammasola vs. brachy to bracy, or are the rosea forms similar enough that it's ok? Or is the g. rosea population so screwed up already, no one cares? Is it an object lesson of WHY you don't breed within the group - you end up with rose, pink, and weird colorations in between, just messing it up?

Thanks all.

 

[miss moxie]

I guess this makes sense, and I have read similar, and people just seem to shrug and say this is the way it is.

Now does that technically mean you can breed two brachypelma? I know that is NOT APPROVED or kosher, nor is it my intent, but is that the same thing: grammastola to grammasola vs. brachy to bracy, or are the rosea forms similar enough that it's ok? Or is the g. rosea population so screwed up already, no one cares? Is it an object lesson of WHY you don't breed within the group - you end up with rose, pink, and weird colorations in between, just messing it up?

Thanks all.

HUMANS SHOULDN'T PLAY GOD!!

Actually there's a long explanation that I can't remember well enough to repeat, but I'm sure someone will chime in.

 

[viper69]

In my perfect world, People that hybridize Ts, especially those that don't care would be shot on site.

You don't hybridize because it's flat out wrong. Do you want a rose hair or do you want a rose hair but it turns out you bought a FRANKENSPIDER from some moronic excuse for a human being.

 

[Sharno]

In my perfect world, People that hybridize Ts, especially those that don't care would be shot on site.

You don't hybridize because it's flat out wrong. Do you want a rose hair or do you want a rose hair but it turns out you bought a FRANKENSPIDER from some moronic excuse for a human being.

I support you 100%. That's why I am asking about this -- it seems that people do mate the different colorforms of rosea - and that it's acceptable, ok, etc. So is it this way because it's been done so much already and it's already a pretty jacked up species (or genus, if that's the correct way to put it) -- and, because it's the most common in the pet trade anyway? Or is it legitimately ok for a pink and a red to hook up, ie, they do it in the wild? Or, taking it further, when the species evolves and then you have "sp. pink" after the name, does that mean it evolved on ITS OWN and needed a new colorization name, or did PEOPLE do this to the animal?

 

[lalberts9310]

Hybridising should not be done, period. Porteri, rosea, and all those "colour forms" are considered different species, so no it's not OK to breed these together. Only irresponsible breeders and people with little to no knowledge hybridize (for THEM it's acceptable/okay, for us? Not so much).. it's not the norm. The breeders I know don't breed these together. I don't want to buy a pure rosea someday and then it's actually an 'it'. Tarantulas that is labled for instance "Chilobrachys sp. Blue", are newly described species or newly discovered, in the process of still being described, or unknown/unidentified, not hybridized species.. and yes, any genus can be hybridized, mostly producing offspring that is inferior both genotypically and phenotypically, meaning they lack the superior characteristics and traits of their pure ancestors.

 

[viper69]

I support you 100%. That's why I am asking about this -- it seems that people do mate the different colorforms of rosea - and that it's acceptable, ok, etc. So is it this way because it's been done so much already and it's already a pretty jacked up species (or genus, if that's the correct way to put it) -- and, because it's the most common in the pet trade anyway? Or is it legitimately ok for a pink and a red to hook up, ie, they do it in the wild? Or, taking it further, when the species evolves and then you have "sp. pink" after the name, does that mean it evolved on ITS OWN and needed a new colorization name, or did PEOPLE do this to the animal?

1. First off, learn the difference between Genus and Species.

2. When you see T names as sp. (insert ANY word), it means that animal is not characterized by science typically. OR at the very least its identity is unknown to the seller, collector etc.

3. The only recognized color form I'm aware of for G. rosea (Rose Hairs), is the RCF, Red Color Form. I do not know if RCFs are a subspecies or simply a locality phenotype. I'm under the impression it's the same species as G. rosea aka Rose Hair. Even if they are the same species, why would anyone want to dilute the beauty of the red genes???

4. G. rosea and G. porteri, not having kept up w/this genus, but those are two different species last I knew. Thus, crossing them gives you FRANKENSPIDERS!! And that is flat out WRONG.

5. Science doesn't dish out new names because of color changes, sadly, most people aren't scientists and names come about for all sorts of reasons, in the hobby usually for profit.

 

[Cavedweller]

In my perfect world, People that hybridize Ts, especially those that don't care would be shot on site.

You don't hybridize because it's flat out wrong. Do you want a rose hair or do you want a rose hair but it turns out you bought a FRANKENSPIDER from some moronic excuse for a human being.

I don't know that much about hybridization, so I'm kinda confused by the intensity of your opposition here. Does crossbreeding produce weak/deformed offspring or something?

 

[Ellenantula]

I don't know that much about hybridization, so I'm kinda confused by the intensity of your opposition here. Does crossbreeding produce weak/deformed offspring or something?

For me, it's just not natural. There are hybrid parrots (esp a few macaw species) and I just can't believe with all the naturally occurring diversity why we need to make more. It makes it harder to identify species. if they crossbreed in the wild, then so be it. But I don't get why a hobbyist would muddy the waters. Animals are good enough just as they are.

 

[miss moxie]

The only cool thing I've ever seen hybridization produce is a one in a million thing. People have been trying to cross highland and lowland P. subfusca. None of the egg sacs (that I've heard of) have been viable. Save for one single spiderling...

NOT MY PICTURES, obviously. I found that on tumblr, but they say this specimen belongs to Tarantula Canada so all rights to them.

Now, as beautiful as that specimen is...

As the sling matured, it displayed gynandromorphism, or the presence of both male an female features. In the picture, you can see this condition as the darker half (highland) is male and the lighter half (lowland) is female. It is a wonder that this animal survived to maturity. This incredibly rare specimen is currently being cared for at the headquarters of Tarantula Canada.

If that doesn't show you what a genetic disaster hybrid tarantulas are, I don't know what will. Sure it's pretty to look at but is that a good reason to create genetically ruined specimens? For our own viewing pleasure? I don't think so. I'll keep admiring that pokie since it's been produced, but I don't advocate further breeding attempts to try and recreate it.

There are hundreds of T species available in the hobby? Why isn't that good enough?

 

[cold blood]

I don't know that much about hybridization, so I'm kinda confused by the intensity of your opposition here. Does crossbreeding produce weak/deformed offspring or something?

It permanently alters the spiders and dilutes them, they no longer belong to either species....keep the separated and don't hybridize...do it and any offspring are going to dilute the species that its bred as in the future....once its done, there's no going back. We rely completely on breeding within the hobby, we need to keep the species as pure as we possibly can...hybridization goes in the face of everything the hobby requires. We don't need or want frankenspiders. When I buy a species, I want THAT species.

 

[lalberts9310]

I don't know that much about hybridization, so I'm kinda confused by the intensity of your opposition here. Does crossbreeding produce weak/deformed offspring or something?

. Hybridizing in tarantulas produces offspring that is inferior to their pure ancestors.. like the poec in miss moxies post, it's interesting, but I wouldn't want that.. and speaking from personal experience.. I own a hybrid myself (B-day gift from hubby,).. if I had the choice to pick between a pure psalmo and a hybrid, I'd definitely pick the pure one.. mine will stay with me till she passes, just to keep her from the hands of irresponsible people.. she's beautiful and I love her, but she's definitely a downgrade of both P. Irminia and P. Cambridgei...

 

[Cavedweller]

I'm kind of confused by the terms like "inferior" and "diluted" mean (Don't worry, I'm not arguing for hybridization or anything, just confused what an "inferior" spider means) In what way is your spider a downgrade? Does she have poor health or vitality or something?

I can't tell of that subfusca hybrid has an embolus yet, but I'll be very interested to see what happens when the male half reaches sexual maturity. I'm really curious about its growth rate too.

 

[viper69]

In what way is your spider a downgrade? Does she have poor health or vitality or something?
.

Yes to both often times.

 

[lalberts9310]

I'm kind of confused by the terms like "inferior" and "diluted" mean (Don't worry, I'm not arguing for hybridization or anything, just confused what an "inferior" spider means) In what way is your spider a downgrade? Does she have poor health or vitality or something?

I can't tell of that subfusca hybrid has an embolus yet, but I'll be very interested to see what happens when the male half reaches sexual maturity. I'm really curious about its growth rate too.

Inferior means: lower in ranks, status or quality.. dilute means: making an object/substance weaker by adding another object/substance, such as adding water to alcohol

I only had her 3 months now, her physical appearance is not as great and striking as that of her pure ancestors, she's rather boring, she barely webs and she fasts on and off, she only recently made a decent tube web, but not as great as that from my P. Irminia, she's a pet rock.. the only upside is she's not skittish at all, never bolts, and she's out all the time.. most likely inherited this from her P. Cambridgei ancestors, she's very aggressive and attacks everything that moves when I do maintenance.. but when it comes to food she won't chase and grab it like my P. Irminia does, she does it as if it is very troublesome to catch and eat.. so yeah not so interesting, i don't know in relation to health, I haven't got her that long really, she has been healthy and hardy this far.. will see in the long run

Not that I'm unhappy with her, I love her and will never sell her, she's very interesting looking, just saying the attitude and personalities and physical appearance of pure psalmos are much more interesting than a hybrid psalmo, and if you are used to psalmos you'll find a psalmo hybrid very boring..

 

[viper69]

To make it simple, an albino is an inferior animal. Don't ask why, read up on what an albino is first. Then if you aren't sure, come back and ask