G Pulchra vs Quirogai

[Pyrelitha]

So I bought what was labeled as a G Pulchra from Jamie's Ts, but now I have seen a couple videos, Tom Moran being the main one that makes me believe its a Quirogai, how do i know which it is? I'd like to know anyway. It's a wee little sling though.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Long story short, you won't be able to tell the difference. The two species are too similar to be able to tell them apart by looking at them.

 

[Venom1080]

Long story short, you won't be able to tell the difference. The two species are too similar to be able to tell them apart by looking at them.

How can someone tell at all? What separates the two?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

How can someone tell at all? What separates the two?

According to the description of G. quirogai, it can be distinguished from G. pulchra by the spination of a male's tibial apophyses, mitochondrial DNA, and zoogeographic range. G. quirogai is located in northern Uruguay and G. pulchra in southern Brazil close to the Uruguayan border. Females of the two species are morphologically indistinguishable.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

How can someone tell at all? What separates the two?

Even if you could track the origin of an individual, it will be doubtful.

G. pulchra and G. quirogai cross borders, which means you can find them both in Brazil and Uruguay.

However, if your individual is from Uruguaiana - Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil, than you will have a G. pulchra. Otherwise, forget about it.

If you bought them as G. pulchra. Better keep it that way.

Here's a link to some thoughts I have that may be, or may be not, "gibblerish", LOL. Only time (and a revision) will tell.

Updates on the mess: G. quirogai x G. pulchra x Argentine Black Grammostola

Hi fellow keepers, I'm a new member in here, maybe a few of you would recognize me because of Instagram or when I had Facebook. I was looking into some threads and found a few about the G. quirogai x G. pulchra issue. Although in the hobby it is difficult to diferentiate them, I'll try to...

arachnoboards.com

 

[Pyrelitha]

So how do people breed this species without mixing them...

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

So how do people breed this species without mixing them...

G. quirogai is a species "relatively" new to the hobby. They were discovered in 2016, but in the hobby, not to so many people knew about them.

Not only that, tons of black Grammostola were wc on Uruguay and sent to Europe as G. pulchra.

So, to answer your question, most of breeders dont even know what they have for sure, if they are label as G. pulchra then, so be it, lets put them together.

Unfortunately, thats what is happening all of this years. Btw, the information that both species can be found in Brazil and Uruguay is also "new" so, there are high chances both species have been mixed up for years in pet trade.

 

[Dorifto]

The Quirogai also tends to be more black brownish, while the pulchra are black with grey hairs.

But... Some pulchras also become brownish while they are reaching their molting xD

There is one article about one quirogai eating a snake in Brazil, so maybe they crossbreed in the nature too.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

The Quirogai also tends to be more black brownish, while the pulchra are black with grey hairs.

But... Some pulchras also become brownish while they are reaching their molting xD

There is one article about one quirogai eating a snake in Brazil, so maybe they crossbreed in the nature too.

Coloration cant be considered, both species can be identical visually.

Its not because different species habit the same places that they will copulate.

 

[checkmate]

I believe Grammostola quirogai was known as Grammostola anthracina sp. north aka "black morph" until 2015 when it was described. But as mentioned above, virtually impossible to ID visually. So how are people breeding pulchras? Probably just going off of labels.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

I believe Grammostola quirogai was known as Grammostola anthracina sp. north aka "black morph" until 2015 when it was described. But as mentioned above, virtually impossible to ID visually. So how are people breeding pulchras? Probably just going off of labels.

Yes, they were, but only in pet trade.

 

[checkmate]

Yes, they were, but only in pet trade.

Yes, forgot to include that part

 

[viper69]

Yeah it’s a huge mess

 

[viper69]

So how do people breed this species without mixing them...

I’m sure 99.99% don’t even know what they own.

And when it comes to WC unless you were there collecting it, you don’t know at all.

 

[Dorifto]

Coloration cant be considered, both species can be identical visually.

Its not because different species habit the same places that they will copulate.

Females can be almost identical, but the quirogai shows the brownish tint much faster than the pulchras. Both after a molt are impossible to distinguish since both are jet black. But after the molt looks like the quirogai shows brownish hairs while in the pulchra they can appear or not in the final stage of the molt. The pulchra has greyish hairs instead of browns.

They only way to distinguish are an DNA secuentiation or via spermathecae

I mean this:

Quirogai:






Pulchra:







The Quirogai images are from the Laura Montes de Oca article.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Females can be almost identical, but the quirogai shows the brownish tint much faster than the pulchras. Both after a molt are impossible to distinguish since both are jet black. But after the molt looks like the quirogai shows brownish hairs while in the pulchra they can appear or not in the final stage of the molt. The pulchra has greyish hairs instead of browns.

They only way to distinguish are an adn secuentiation or via spermathecae.

I mean this:

Quirogai:
View attachment 341666

View attachment 341667

View attachment 341668

Pulchra:

View attachment 341669

View attachment 341670

View attachment 341671

The Quirogai images are from the Laura Montes de Oca article.

Still, coloration is not reliable.
Agree with, though, the only method 100% reliable to distinguish the females is phylogenetics, not even spermathecae (isolated as a character) is reliable in this case.

 

[Dorifto]

Still, coloration is not reliable.
Agree with, though, the only method 100% reliable to distinguish the females is phylogenetics, not even spermathecae (isolated as a character) is reliable in this case.

I know it's not reliable, but if your "Pulchra" is more brownish (the hairs) the biggest part before molting, then you have more chances to be a Quirogai than a Pulchra. Pulchras can became "brownish" when they are approaching to molt, even the molt can decolorate itself to brown. I have one that became brownish after molting.

But as we say, the only way to determine wich specie you have is a phylogenic exam.