FWC is evil

[Tarantuland]

USARK FL - FWC Officers Slaughter Pet Boa and 34 other Snakes on Holy Thursday

The link to the video is at the bottom of that link.

When the ban passed, officials stated that pet owners could keep living pets for the rest of their lives, and now FWC is killing people's animals. Including a gravid boa that is not on the list of banned species.

 

[Smotzer]

Wow this is truly horrible……I’m shock at what those FWC officers did to that man and to his animals. They should lose their jobs and be charged with animal cruelty in my eyes.

 

[NMTs]

This kind of BS is why I got out of the snake breeding business 15 years ago. The idiots in charge couldn't tell the difference between a hognose and a retic if their lives depended on it, but unfortunately it's the animals' and owners' lives that they're playing with. Disgusting.

 

[CrazyOrnithoctonineGuy]

The officials who create and enforce these laws have no idea how to even identify which animals are subject to the law, even assuming the law actually makes sense.

 

[The Snark]

It is an inherent problem within virtually all law enforcement persons. We are drilled and constantly reminded and enforced with the thinking The Law is The Law is The Law coupled to YOU ARE THE LAW endowed with absolute authority over 'civilians'. Personal feelings and ethics gets sidelined and you are expected to only allow them in your life when off duty. This is why I gave up being a cop. Big Brother rules your mind.

The officials who create and enforce these laws have no idea how to even identify which animals are subject to the law, even assuming the law actually makes sense.

First, DO NOT GROUP legislative, the branch of the government that makes the laws, with the judiciary that undertakes law enforcement. They are separated for a reason and have no part in each others functions.

Woke up a few minutes ago with a vivid memory that left a very bitter taint in my mind. So very similar to that raid on the snakes.
Our police department was handed a warrant to be served on a person in our jurisdiction. So we went to serve the warrant. Our suspect escaped out a window so we called in an adjacent law enforcement agency to assist. In turn a third law enforcement agency was called in following some protocol of the second agency.
The progress went from Warrant service -> Manhunt -> Search and Seizure, a major raid on that house that took the place apart searching for evidence. We the first in had no say or authority with the second and third responders. The house got completely trashed but no evidence was found. If there had been a collection of snakes, the second or third agency could have legally destroyed them claiming the animals were inhibiting Due Process of the Law.
So law enforcement can be a mindless automaton that goes completely out of control but is able to justify itself by following established procedures.
As it turned out, the person we went to serve a warrant on had nothing to do with that house and was a transient simply staying overnight. The owners of the house entirely innocent victims that had no recourse of action for the hundreds of dollars damage and chaos their house became.

Or a second scenario. Cannabis was discovered being grown in a back yard in our jurisdiction. We did not have the person power to undertake a S&S so we jointly obtained a warrant with a mutual aid agency. We went in, found contraband, and had an open and shut case on the homeowner. Everything was handed up to the DA. A couple of weeks later we were informed by the other agency that all charges were dropped.
The enforcement of the law may be anything but fair and equal. Average homeowner would probably have been convicted and served time. The owner of that property was the retired head of a branch of the FBI and his son had grown the plants. And as for the law is the law, it suddenly turned into pure lip service.

You, the LEO, must become a mindless automaton, an extension of a system. If the system gets tweaked or corrupted and it came from on high, ignore and go about doing your robot job without giving it a second thought.

 

[JDS123]

A Republican led state- no surprise with Dummy Da Sandwich at the helm

Really because I'm in california a super liberal dem state and we have 10 times as many absurd laws that Florida......we can't even keep half the animals they can in every other state. Let alone all the rest of the laws here.

 

[viper69]

Really because I'm in california a super liberal dem state and we have 10 times as many absurd laws that Florida......we can't even keep half the animals they can in every other state. Let alone all the rest of the laws here.

I know Cali very well- stupidity exists in both parties.

 

[The Snark]

Really because I'm in california a super liberal dem state and we have 10 times as many absurd laws that Florida....

PARADOX ALERT
California does indeed have the most codes of all the states while at the same time being considered the most liberal. This is a product of the courts and the will of the people residing in the state. The codes are constantly being challenged and consequently more codes added to spell things out in greater detail. If you give that some thought, this is much more preferable than the states having sweeping blanket coverage laws that extend less freedom for the individuals. Additionally, California by far has the greatest population which directly equates to more diversity which naturally tends to cause more specific laws to be written and voter approved.

So 10 out of 10 for laying the blame on 'The State' but 1.03 out of 10 for reasoning who is actually responsible for all the laws.


(As an aside, no, I am not a Law and Order advocate. But I do appreciate the abundance of laws in California for the simple reason - from what I've personally encountered, people constantly testing and breaking the basic laws based on common sense.
IE Yes, motor vehicles are banned in primitive wildlife areas. Yes, that includes motorcycles. NO! It does not include them! Amendment to the law gets written. NO, it does not include ATVs! And yet another amendment in the works to include them but dumb dumb environment wreckers are having too much fun destroying the wilderness and voted that amendment down. And on and on it goes, ad nauseum.)

 

[JDS123]

PARADOX ALERT
California does indeed have the most codes of all the states while at the same time being considered the most liberal. This is a product of the courts and the will of the people residing in the state. The codes are constantly being challenged and consequently more codes added to spell things out in greater detail. If you give that some thought, this is much more preferable than the states having sweeping blanket coverage laws that extend less freedom for the individuals. Additionally, California by far has the greatest population which directly equates to more diversity which naturally tends to cause more specific laws to be written and voter approved.

So 10 out of 10 for laying the blame on 'The State' but 1.03 out of 10 for reasoning who is actually responsible for all the laws.

Have you been here for the last 5 years, just curious, it's falling apart, it's a dumpster fire.

 

[The Snark]

Have you been here for the last 5 years, just curious, it's falling apart, it's a dumpster fire.

Have you been in or around law enforcement in California for fifty years? It always has been a dumpster fire, from the Spanish invasion-inquisition-enslavement movement-genocide on.

 

[JDS123]

Have you been in or around law enforcement in California for fifty years? It always has been a dumpster fire, from the Spanish invasion-inquisition-enslavement movement-genocide on.

im just curious if youve seen it lately.

no bashing.

but yeah i got family retiring from drug enforcement, top dogs, their tired of it.

moving out of state.

2 sherrif freinds and another agent who also trains the police force in firearms, all tired of it and moving on.

Between me in Bakersfield and Los Angeles the homeless are pooping on every corner, in front of and behine restaurants, houses, rows of tents in every neighborhood.

its crazy

im not judging you

i work in technology in all the law agencies, schools, and medical facilities, and just being at the DA office yesterday, they are all just over it.

not arguing or anything

honestly i guess we should pry get back on topic, u can pm anytime though......was just curious your thoughts

take care bud

 

[The Snark]

@JDS123 I'm in touch with a few cops there, yes. And I can't blame them for wanting to go elsewhere. Cops are caught in the middle between the fanatic law makers and the people who consider the state to be their personal playground.

Now you take into account when I worked with a native reservation law enforcement agency. A tiny fraction of the laws and anything outside of that little box requires local law enforcement be called in which usually gets referred to the FBI. Now take a guess just how fast the FBI agents from their office 300 miles away respond to an incident.
Wild west free for all with rapes and murders well above all the states per capita.

@JDS123 Just imagine my (lack of) surprise when statistics came out showing our reservation came in well above the nation's worst murder hotspot, some inner city location in Florida. Local non native cruises the reservation, rapes and murders a woman then leaves the rez. Not our jurisdiction. Local law enforcement refers to the FBI.
They are still working out those laws and overlapping jurisdictions.

Want less laws? Here: While we are, or were the worst, we are by no means alone.
Reference pages deleted, available by PM request.

 

[JDS123]

@JDS123 Just imagine my (lack of) surprise when statistics came out showing our reservation came in well above the nation's worst murder hotspot, some inner city location in Florida. Local non native cruises the reservation, rapes and murders a woman then leaves the rez. Not our jurisdiction. Local law enforcement refers to the FBI.
They are still working out those laws and overlapping jurisdictions.

Want less laws? Here: While we are, or were the worst, we are by no means alone.

This Lone Indian Reservation Is One Of The Most Dangerous Places In The Country

www.businessinsider.com

The True Story Behind 'Wind River' Is This Hidden Injustice Against Native American Women

On the Native American reservation of Wind River, life expectancy is 49-years-old, and unemployment rates are higher than 80 percent, according to The New York Times. But there's something more startling than these grim figures — the utter lack of…

www.bustle.com

Brutal Crimes Grip an Indian Reservation (Published 2012)

On a huge stretch of scrubland in central Wyoming, a two-year federal crime-fighting initiative has made little difference.

www.nytimes.com

Ill check this out in a bit, hey and when I said we should pry get back on topic, i was thinking this was in a different thread my bad.

 

[The Snark]

get back on topic,

To get back on topic, FWC is evil, I'm non judgemental. I honestly dislike MOST laws. Laws being made instead of people using common sense, acting in a responsible manner and exercising civility. I especially detest laws that protect individuals from themselves.
As for the FWC, along with numerous other governmental agencies, sorry folks, but you, the voters, created and sustain this Neo-fascism. The few bad apples analogy applies. People seeing what they can get away with.
From Hammurabi on, the west is up to it's eyeballs in laws from enforcing basic common sense and decency on out to pure religious and other ideological fanaticism's. And there is no end in sight.
And always keep in mind, fair and equal is pie in the sky total BS. Just as rare as the majority of politicians not having and employing personal agendas.

The common standard paradox. A cop cuts an incidental accidental incident slack = dereliction of duty. Not cutting slack, fascist cop.

 

[Arachnopets]

ADMIN NOTE:

I will NOT allow this thread to derail into a political debate. Keep the politics out of this thread. This is NOT a request ...

 

[The Snark]

Just to mention, FWC has a very full load on their plates job wise while constantly coping with budget cuts and the usual lack of trained and skilled senior veteran experts. Quite a bit larger than many equivalent agencies. Habitat and species conservation, Hunting and fishing oversight, boating oversight and policing, wildlife public information venues, promoting and assisting in biological and botanical research and law enforcement.
With such a vast job description I can easily see heavy handed expedience getting into their operations. And one major ongoing challenge is what to focus their efforts on and where with a continuously fluctuating budget. Just the thought of having to swing from natural environment protection and preservation to high density human populations recreational areas and constant habitat encroachment - it's hard for me to imagine a single agency trying to cover all those bases.
Habitat protection, preservation and conservation, F&W work, USFS operations, public education, multiple focus law enforcement agencies and operations plus the go to recreation areas of much of the east coast; one hell of a job description.
During tourist season where I worked my job description changed from pedestrian policing efforts to full on Search and Rescue where we might have to call in several dozen persons from any available agencies to contribute to missing hiker retrievals for days at a time on top of our regular duties.

 

[JDS123]

Just to mention, FWC has a very full load on their plates job wise while constantly coping with budget cuts and the usual lack of trained and skilled senior veteran experts. Quite a bit larger than many equivalent agencies. Habitat and species conservation, Hunting and fishing oversight, boating oversight and policing, wildlife public information venues, promoting and assisting in biological and botanical research and law enforcement.
With such a vast job description I can easily see heavy handed expedience getting into their operations. And one major ongoing challenge is what to focus their efforts on and where with a continuously fluctuating budget. Just the thought of having to swing from natural environment protection and preservation to high density human populations recreational areas and constant habitat encroachment - it's hard for me to imagine a single agency trying to cover all those bases.
Habitat protection, preservation and conservation, F&W work, USFS operations, public education, multiple focus law enforcement agencies and operations plus the go to recreation areas of much of the east coast; one hell of a job description.
During tourist season where I worked my job description changed from pedestrian policing efforts to full on Search and Rescue where we might have to call in several dozen persons from any available agencies to contribute to missing hiker retrievals for days at a time on top of our regular duties.

With all that going on, why were they so die hard bent on killing all these animals that were chipped, locked in proper enclosures and in a locked facility posing no risk while over the time given, he rehomed tons of snakes and just needed more time to rehome the rest..............to crazy

 

[The Snark]

I could go into the mindset of the various individuals. Undoubtedly some FWC Officers disliked the actions those two took. Are we expecting every officer to be a perfect polite consciencous robot?
But, @JDS123 It's quite obvious you are out to vilify the FWC. So you have an axe to grind; have at it, for all the good it will do anyone. But just out of idle curiosity, have you researched all the instances where the FWC rescued and rendered care for animals, sometimes above and beyond the call of duty?

If you want an excellent example of evil, regard the title of this thread. Dragging an entire agency's reputation through the mud for the actions of two people.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Been watching this a lot. Actually currently watching an IG live with USARK Florida.
FWC wants to keep everything out. Anything non native that can live in Florida, that will include tarantulas and other inverts.
Also if you're not aware Sen. Marco Rubio of FL introduced a bill today that is basically the federal version of Florida's whitelist. Which will give USFW ultimate and sole authority to ban interstate travel of any species it wants.

Also just heard the FWC biologist in charge of invasive species resigned in Nov. 2022 and she is now the invasive species biologist for.... USFW.
Coincidence?

 

[Gator Watson]

I don't understand any of this. I feel like their intentions have to be pure, but why start banning everything? Especially from responsible keepers. I think we can all agree the invasives are a problem, but outright banning most/all exotic pets is not the solution.