From Sp. to species

[Theneil]

So many tarantulas are sold as Genus sp. FillInTheBlank. Foe example i have a Chilobrachys sp vietnam blue.

Since the sp. FillInTheBlank doesn't technically mean anything and multiple species can potentially have the same sp. FillInTheBlank and/or Described species can be sold as sp. FillInTheBlank, HOW do you figure out what species it is once it is described or synonomized with an existing species? (Hopefully without requiring death, dissection, or sending them away.)

 

[PeteysPizza]

you could probably send in a molt to an expert somewhere or post pictures and people could give you ideas on what it might be... hope this helps

 

[Ellenantula]

So many tarantulas are sold as Genus sp. FillInTheBlank. Foe example i have a Chilobrachys sp vietnam blue.

Since the sp. FillInTheBlank doesn't technically mean anything and multiple species can potentially have the same sp. FillInTheBlank and/or Described species can be sold as sp. FillInTheBlank, HOW do you figure out what species it is once it is described or synonomized with an existing species? (Hopefully without requiring death, dissection, or sending them away.)

Could it be a Chilobrachys dyscolus? Do you have an adult or a juvie.
Anyway -- absolutely gorgeous T! I'm jealous.

 

[Theneil]

you could probably send in a molt to an expert somewhere or post pictures and people could give you ideas on what it might be... hope this helps

Could it be a Chilobrachys dyscolus? Do you have an adult or a juvie.
Anyway -- absolutely gorgeous T! I'm jealous.

That is what i have read in a few other places, however because sp. vietnam blue isn't a real species name, my vietnam blue may or may not be the same as the next persons.

I am more wondering the best way to go about this issue in general than just trying to get an official name on a specific spider. i don't mind owning sp. ___ i just want to know how to figure out when it is either described and given a propper name or proven to be something that is already described.

Do the big vendors have a newsletter or something that they send out when they find out that the stock they sold as sp. X is now known to be species Y or do we just guess based on pictures or do those specimen just never get lumped back in with the others once they start being sold under the new (old) name?

There are SOO many amazing species out there that 'aren't described' that i would love to have but not knowing how to properly ID it once it is described, etc. later kinda turns me off to the idea of buying them (not as much as the fact i am broke does though. LOL).

i am just curious because people must have a way of doing it...

 

[Theneil]

Could it be a Chilobrachys dyscolus? Do you have an adult or a juvie.
Anyway -- absolutely gorgeous T! I'm jealous.

its about 2-2.5 inches DLS right now so it still has lots of growing left to do. It isn't near as pretty as it will get yet. (Granted all i ever get to see is substrate with some holes in it so yeah....)


(Its actually a little bit darker than it looks in the picture because of the flash)

 

[Greasylake]

With these undescribed species it's kind of just agreed on what we'll call them, usually based off of their coloration or native range. Since they aren't properly described though one species could be sold under multiple different names based on appearance and our best guess as to whether or not it's a distinct species, or multiple species that look very similar could be sold under the same name. I'm just going to say look into the Phormictopus genus to get an idea of how this stuff works.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

So many tarantulas are sold as Genus sp. FillInTheBlank. Foe example i have a Chilobrachys sp vietnam blue.

Since the sp. FillInTheBlank doesn't technically mean anything and multiple species can potentially have the same sp. FillInTheBlank and/or Described species can be sold as sp. FillInTheBlank, HOW do you figure out what species it is once it is described or synonomized with an existing species? (Hopefully without requiring death, dissection, or sending them away.)

This is a very complicated topic and I will do my best to try to explain it. Unfortunately, sometimes it does require death, dissection, or sending it away. There are entire books dedicated to spider identification so my brief explanation won't provide a step-by-step guide on how to identify a tarantula. Just a high level overview of what is involved.

Spider identification, including tarantulas, requires a mature adult for an accurate determination. IDs are made by comparing anatomical characteristics found on a spider to published description papers. These anatomical characters are usually not visible to the naked eye or visible in a picture. When you post a picture and someone throws out a species name, consider it a best guess and expect it to be wrong. Examining the anatomical characters requires a stereo microscope and a few additional tools like straight pins, tweezers, etc. for dissection. Depending on what characters are used for identification, you can either use the molt of a mature adult or you will need to wait for it to die, preserve it in alcohol and dissect the dead spider. For the accurate ID of a single male tarantula, for example, you are usually going to need to examine the palpal bulbs and the only way to do that is by removing them from a dead tarantula and examining it under a microscope.

The first step in making a species ID is confirming the genus of your pet tarantula. When buying any tarantula always expect that even the genus will be wrong. Once you confirm the genus, then you need to read through every published description paper for all species of that genus and methodically eliminate possibilities.

Like I said, this is a huge topic and can't be summed up in one forum post. There isn't one way to identify a tarantula and not all characters are used in all cases. For example, a spider's genitalia (spermatheca and palpal bulbs) is typically used for species ID, but genitalia is useless for determining species of Aphonopelma in the USA and useless in IDing species of Grammostola.

 

[Theneil]

Okay. That's about what i guessed it would be. Every individual spider would need to be examined by the purchaser.

Thank you.

I think for the time being, i will just stick with described species. Just finding the official descriptions is out of my skill range let alone the disection and comparison. i'll just keep reading and maybe in a few more years i'll be there.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I think for the time being, i will just stick with described species. Just finding the official descriptions is out of my skill range let alone the disection and comparison. i'll just keep reading and maybe in a few more years i'll be there.

I hate to break it to you, but even described species are often misidentified and sold with the wrong scientific name. There are also times where tarantulas sold as "sp. 'FillInTheBlank'" turn out to be described species. One example is the tarantula that was once sold as Chilobrachys sp. "Black Satan." Apparently that tarantula turned out to be Chilobrachys fumosus when examined by a German arachnologist. When you see "sp. 'FillInTheblank'" it just means whoever bred it, collected it, or sold it doesn't know what it is; it could be known to science (described) or unknown to science (undescribed).

My advice is to buy the tarantulas you are interested in keeping and not worry too much about what their proper identity is unless spider identification is a skill you are interested in gaining. When it comes to caring for tarantulas, proper husbandry is usually the same for groups of tarantulas and doesn't vary by species. For example, all Chilobrachys species are burrowers from tropical Asia so they all need to be kept with plenty of damp substrate to burrow in. The same can be said for all species of Cyriopagopus.

 

[Theneil]

I hate to break it to you, but even described species are often misidentified and sold with the wrong scientific name. There are also times where tarantulas sold as "sp. 'FillInTheBlank'" turn out to be described species. One example is the tarantula that was once sold as Chilobrachys sp. "Black Satan." Apparently that tarantula turned out to be Chilobrachys fumosus when examined by a German arachnologist. When you see "sp. 'FillInTheblank'" it just means whoever bred it, collected it, or sold it doesn't know what it is; it could be known to science (described) or unknown to science (undescribed).

My advice is to buy the tarantulas you are interested in keeping and not worry too much about what their proper identity is unless spider identification is a skill you are interested in gaining. When it comes to caring for tarantulas, proper husbandry is usually the same for groups of tarantulas and doesn't vary by species. For example, all Chilobrachys species are burrowers from tropical Asia so they all need to be kept with plenty of damp substrate to burrow in. The same can be said for all species of Cyriopagopus.

Right, and thats the main thing i was trying to figure out. Pretending i owned a sp black Satan and somebody qualified confirms they are fumosus how do i find out so that i can appropriately update the name of mine? Where are the 'discoveries' posted?

i would at some point like the ability to at least narrow down the options myself someday (though hopefully not NEED the skill too often) but more immediately, if when i get a MM (or female for that matter) i would like to be involved in breeding but it seems like sp. fillintheblank is a more likely hybridization risk than a described species, even if for no other reason than a described species has a description somewhere (though i'm not sure where/how to find them) whereas by definition, an UNdescribed sp. fillintheblank does not so it is a giant game of Telephone trying to get hearsay information, while you hope that therebis only one version of sp. fillintheblank. LOL

Side note: i thought cyriopagopus sp. hatihati was arboreal?



Sometimes thinking about tarantulas just makes my head hurt.....

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Right, and thats the main thing i was trying to figure out. Pretending i owned a sp black Satan and somebody qualified confirms they are fumosus how do i find out so that i can appropriately update the name of mine? Where are the 'discoveries' posted?

i would at some point like the ability to at least narrow down the options myself someday (though hopefully not NEED the skill too often) but more immediately, if when i get a MM (or female for that matter) i would like to be involved in breeding but it seems like sp. fillintheblank is a more likely hybridization risk than a described species, even if for no other reason than a described species has a description somewhere (though i'm not sure where/how to find them) whereas by definition, an UNdescribed sp. fillintheblank does not so it is a giant game of Telephone trying to get hearsay information, while you hope that therebis only one version of sp. fillintheblank. LOL

Side note: i thought cyriopagopus sp. hatihati was arboreal?



Sometimes thinking about tarantulas just makes my head hurt.....

When someone finds the identity of a species, it usually makes its rounds across this site and as I understand tarantula Facebook groups. I don't have a Facebook account so I can't vouch for that or recommend groups to join there. The "black satan" being C. fumosus I learned from this thread on here.

All spider species descriptions can be found at the World Spider Catalog.

 

[Theneil]

Thanks @AphonopelmaTX i didn't know WSC had all the descriptions.