For those who keep live plant vivariums

[Chilobrachys]

I've been looking into adding live plants to all of my enclosures. My question pertains to the substrate (probably the most important part). I was looking at recipe's for making organic substrate and they all mention collecting leaves in the 1st and 2nd stages of decomposition from the woods, saying that your introducing benefitial bacteria. What I was wondering is, wouldn't you also be introducing mite and other parasites. If you bake the leaves would it kill harmful organisms and not the good stuff? Heres where i got some of these recipe's http://z6.invisionfree.com/AmphiTalk/index.php?showtopic=42&view=getnewpost

 

[arachnochicken]

personally I keep my plant in the pots they come in and bury them in the cocao fiber I use in my tanks/cages .

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I use a lot of natural material (from the woods) sticks, moss, leaves and other detritus. I have never baked or cleaned any of it ... I want the micro-fauna.
Additionally, I add springtails, small millipedes, snails, and sow bugs to all my planted vivariums ... they are my clean up crew.
The only planted enclosures I have with substrate are for my T. cristatus and my R. brevicaudatus and I use a mixture of peat, sand and coco fiber.

-Brad

 

[Teal]

Brad, you use all the natural stuff in your tarantula tanks? I've been considering it, but was worried about the affects of the organisms on the material..

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Brad, you use all the natural stuff in your tarantula tanks? I've been considering it, but was worried about the affects of the organisms on the material..

I don't keep tarantulas.

-Brad

 

[rollinkansas]

The people that keep leaves usually boil or bake them.

If you want a good substrate recipe, look at the ABG mix. You can make it on your own or buy it pre-mixed.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

The people that keep leaves usually boil or bake them.

Why?
I seriously do not think it is necessary to do this.

-Brad

 

[Chilobrachys]

My main concern and reason for this post is mites. When i was a kid i had an iguana and my dad put some sticks in the cage that were not boiled or baked. Sure enough there was an infestation of those little red mites. I would just like to make a "bio-active" substrate, but the health of my animals always comes first. I just want to be super cautious.

 

[rollinkansas]

Why?
I seriously do not think it is necessary to do this.

-Brad

If you dont think its necessary, then dont do it. Some people do it who keep frogs because they dont want to introduce chytrid into the tanks....a better safe than sorry philosophy. You lose nothing by boiling or baking the leaves. However some people are afraid that by not doing so, they will introducing things into their vivariums that they cant control.

 

[Pacmaster]

I even keep lotsa frogs, and I dont bake any of the leaves . . .
You want all that stuff in your naturalistic tank, otherwise it wont work.
id say 99.9% of the little crawlies and funguses and molds and bacterias youlll introduce are not mites or otherwise harmful.
They are helpful, thats the whole point.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I even keep lotsa frogs, and I dont bake any of the leaves . . .
You want all that stuff in your naturalistic tank, otherwise it wont work.
id say 99.9% of the little crawlies and funguses and molds and bacterias youlll introduce are not mites or otherwise harmful.
They are helpful, thats the whole point.

Exactly.

-Brad

 

[UrbanJungles]

It's a bad idea to "sterilize" substrate for a naturalistic environment...as previously mentioned, you want all of those tiny decomposers working for you.

The best thing you can do for a natural vivarium is inoculate it with tons of teeny tiny little decomposers.

 

[Chilobrachys]

Thanks for the info guys, like i said the only thing I'm worried about is mites. Do you guys have any recommendations for good starter plants once i get the substrate set and ready to go? I'm mainly going to be keeping my "cresties" in there but i might make a tank for a couple of my spiders as well. Would it be difficult to find plant species native to certain parts of the world (for example, New Caledonia)?

 

[Matt K]

All this info seems to vary as to effecacy or hazard from one part of the country to another....

I am in Texas, and have used wild collected wood/sticks/bark for reptiles and tarantulas (Avics, Psalmopeus and Poecilotheria) without any problems unbaked/unboiled. Though I did rinse it all off with a garden hose outside and let it dry for a half day or so.

 

[pavel]

While "mites" do generally strike a chord of fear in many folks, do keep in mind that many mites -- many of the red ones are no exception -- are actually predatory and feed on other inverts.

What kind of 'critters' are you planning on giving 'greener' homes?

 

[Chilobrachys]

I was planning on starting off with my cresties and maybe throw a millipede in there, but i would like to get into it and do it for all my critters

 

[Pacmaster]

The best thing you can do for a natural vivarium is inoculate it with tons of teeny tiny little decomposers.

At the local nursery the other day, I saw starter cultures of beneficial nematodes!
No, not the bad ones that infect a Ts mouth,but the good ones that keep the substrate clean.
The package was about $18, worth it for those with a complex about bringin in stuff from outside.
It is a sterile culture.

I remember back in my reeftank days, we would all swap sand and get all excited and drive hundreds of miles to get different sands fulla different little pods(we called em), the same thing but in fishtanks . . .

 

[codykrr]

interesting stuff pac, what do they do in reeftanks? same thing just for fish crap?

 

[Pacmaster]

What Im getting here, is that you are mainly worried about mites coming in on various items from outside . . .

On way to prevent or control this is to thoroughly spray said items with the specific product called "Mite-Off".
That product uses colloids, which I believe is just diatomatious earth in suspension, to get rid of mites as compared to products like Reptile Relief which use pesticides.
In theory it should not kill any beneficial, non-arachnid creature.

I would definately NOT use the mite-off on anything that will go in or near a tarantula cage.
For crested geckos tho, that should do the trick . . .
Spray the branch till saturated, then let dry.
You might even rinse it off after a day or 2 of drying . . .

 

[Pacmaster]

interesting stuff pac, what do they do in reeftanks? same thing just for fish crap?

Yup, ever heard the term "live sand" or "live rock", those terms really include all the bacterias and algeas and stuff, including all kindsa little creatures we called copepods.
They were mostly microscopic, you really dont even know if there there or not.
Man, what a pain in the butt that was to keep a healthy sandbed.

I havent been into it for years, probably lots of advancements been made in that hobby . . .

But the principle is the same- breakdown of waste into something beneficial . . .