Fall risk?

[Danielwo]

I have to rehouse my G Pulchripes. She's getting her legs/fangs stuck in her repti zoo lid at times and I dont want to risk anything. Her new home is a 18x18 exo-terra. Her leg span is between 5 and 6 inches now but the new enclosure has almost a 9 inch drop at the front from the top. Is that to high?

 

[viper69]

1.5x DLS

 

[Danielwo]

Thanks, wasn't sure if it was body or leg it referred to.

 

[fcat]

If the new home is too big, and her current isnt too small, you can always cover the screen with a drilled sheet of acrylic, picture frame sheeting, or a stencil blank sheet?

 

[Danielwo]

If the new home is too big, and her current isnt too small, you can always cover the screen with a drilled sheet of acrylic, picture frame sheeting, or a stencil blank sheet?

Just want to get her moved. I have new acrylic lids for all my exo's and a glass one for hers. I would have to glue a sheet under tye top and I think it's better if I move her. The current enclosure is not as adaptable much. I'll sell it for reptiles but not for T's. I'll just have to make sure she gets her food.

 

[Wolfram1]

Well general wisdom says its too much, but if you ask @Dorifto he will most likely tell you that a well designed enclosure, one thats oversized by conventional wisdom can work.

Check out his posts you might get some inspiration.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Well general wisdom says its too much, but if you ask @Dorifto he will most likely tell you that a well designed enclosure, one thats oversized by conventional wisdom can work.

Check out his posts you might get some inspiration.

I 100% agree with this. I give my terrestrial females 3x the leg span, with multiple places to hide and web to (if they are heavy webbers). It may take them a minute to set up shop, but they’ve used all the space provided.

 

[444 critters]

I personally never understood the "enclosure must be small" thing... I mean, who is telling them not to climb in the wild?

 

[Wolfram1]

I think the concern is more about the drop, than the size, and to be honest

I personally never understood the "enclosure must be small" thing... I mean, who is telling them not to climb in the wild?

this is sadly a common mentality

they do climb and even clearly test their confines from time to time, which can be dangerous and needs to be taken into consideration! Too many spiders have died from falls already.

i am not sure i agree with Dorifto about them not climbing in well designed larger enclosures, but i do agree that they are things you can to to mitigate the risks or prevent climbing in certain areas, for example they tend to avoid climbing through lush plants so if there are lots of leaves at the top in areas you dont want them to climb that can be an effective deterrant and thus save them from danger more often than not

 

[444 critters]

I think the concern is more about the drop, than the size, and to be honest


this is sadly a common mentality

they do climb and even clearly test their confines from time to time, which can be dangerous and needs to be taken into consideration! Too many spiders have died from falls already.

i am not sure i agree with Dorifto about them not climbing in well designed larger enclosures, but i do agree that they are things you can to to mitigate the risks or prevent climbing in certain areas, for example they tend to avoid climbing through lush plants so if there are lots of leaves at the top in areas you dont want them to climb that can be an effective deterrant and thus save them from danger more often than not

Obviously they climb. Falls are from slips. Because they don't always get a good grip on glass. If you have a enclosure with actual things inside, instead of a plain square glass or acrylic enclosure, they will be just fine. A spider will not just fall off bark, or plant life. That is ridiculous. What about all the arboreal spiders in trees? Are they just falling and dying constantly? I think not. I reckon poor husbandry is the culprit.

 

[Wolfram1]

Obviously they climb. Falls are from slips. Because they don't always get a good grip on glass. If you have a enclosure with actual things inside, instead of a plain square glass or acrylic enclosure, they will be just fine. A spider will not just fall off bark, or plant life. That is ridiculous. What about all the arboreal spiders in trees? Are they just falling and dying constantly? I think not. I reckon poor husbandry is the culprit.

the most dangerous situation is if a terrestrial spider manages to get upside down on the lid, hence the danger of mesh, and or when they climb during premolt, which is rare but they loose some of their grip during this time as well

 

[444 critters]

the most dangerous situation is if a terrestrial spider manages to get upside down on the lid, hence the danger of mesh, and or when they climb during premolt, which is rare but they loose some of their grip during this time as well

I agree with you, but all species are different, and should be kept appropriately.. terrestrial spiders burrow, so there isn't a need for climbing space, just burrowing space. Arboreal spiders are always wanting to be at the top of their enclosure. So why restrict that? Why not accommodate?

I often see people comment/complain how aggressive (defensive) OBT are, have you ever noticed they always web to the top of their enclosures? 9 times out of 10 they are treated as a terrestrial, when they are more comfortable being off the ground in their web tunnels on the lid. They are defensive because their web is destroyed everytime the enclosure is opened. I keep both my female OBT in a 12x12x18 front opening enclosure, and both ladies set up shop in the top corners of the enclosure. I have had zero defensive postures or any aggressive behavior. As far as feeding goes, they will pop their toes out when they want to eat.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I do think husbandry is important with the species.

 

[Wolfram1]

I agree with you, but all species are different, and should be kept appropriately.. terrestrial spiders burrow, so there isn't a need for climbing space, just burrowing space. Arboreal spiders are always wanting to be at the top of their enclosure. So why restrict that? Why not accommodate?

I often see people comment/complain how aggressive (defensive) OBT are, have you ever noticed they always web to the top of their enclosures? 9 times out of 10 they are treated as a terrestrial, when they are more comfortable being off the ground in their web tunnels on the lid. They are defensive because their web is destroyed everytime the enclosure is opened. I keep both my female OBT in a 12x12x18 front opening enclosure, and both ladies set up shop in the top corners of the enclosure. I have had zero defensive postures or any aggressive behavior. As far as feeding goes, they will pop their toes out when they want to eat.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I do think husbandry is important with the species.

oh i think we are of a like mind, it's just that i was trying to not only respond to you, but also in a way that may give the OP some insights on what to look out for, and his spider is a terrestrial and how he approaches the setup of the new enclosure is worth thinking over

so if some of my answers were highlighting the dangers more than i would have in a straight conversation that's my bad, i was thinking of this spider in particular

 

[444 critters]

oh i think we are of a like mind, it's just that i was trying to not only respond to you, but also in a way that may give the OP some insights on what to look out for, and his spider is a terrestrial and how he approaches the setup of the new enclosure is worth thinking over

so if some of my answers were highlighting the dangers more than i would have in a straight conversation that's my bad, i was thinking of this spider in particular

It's all love here brother

 

[cold blood]

I personally never understood the "enclosure must be small" thing... I mean, who is telling them not to climb in the wild?

First off, I think you are taking things too far by using the word "must". No one I have ever seen uses such a definitive term for enclosure size. Its more of a suggestion.

But for many, especially slings, a smaller enclosure just makes life easier for you and the spiderling as a spiderling in a small enclosure will burrow less (if at all), eat much more readily and grow significantly quicker as a result.
I did a year long study involving several hundred slings of several terrestrial species and the results were astounding as literally every single one housed in a larger enclosure grew so much slower it was incredible...and there was not a single exception.

Now onto climbing in the wild....no wild t on the planet is living with smooth, tall walls around them...walls of an enclosure induce climbing as its the only option when exploring or wandering, which all ts do from time to time....so its a worry in captivity because the living conditions are completely different and unnatural.

A spider will not just fall off bark, or plant life. That is ridiculous

Falling off a piece of bark isn't the issue one needs to be concerned about....falling onto the bark is a bigger issue.....but [heavier bodied terrestrial] ts can and will fall when climbing on smooth walls or when hanging from the top (especially as they get closer to a molt)....captivity offers unnatural dangers that a wild t never sees and that our captive one live with every day and this is why its important to limit falls.

What about all the arboreal spiders in trees? Are they just falling and dying constantly?

The issue of falling or having too much vertical space does NOT apply to arboreals....its a concern only for terrestrial species that are not built for climbing on high, smooth vertical surfaces.

terrestrial spiders burrow

well, not all do....all fossorials do, but certainly not all terrestrials.

Arboreal spiders are always wanting to be at the top of their enclosure.

Again, not all arboreals...avics do...but most others actually spend a great deal of time at ground level, and many even burrow in captivity, like violaceopes for example.

But again, this whole fall risk doesn't apply to arboreals, as they are much more skilled climbers with a different body type.

I often see people comment/complain how aggressive (defensive) OBT are, have you ever noticed they always web to the top of their enclosures? 9 times out of 10 they are treated as a terrestrial

well they are actually fossorial...just exceedingly adaptable which is why so many misunderstand what category they actually fall in....but I totally agree that if housed properly, they aren't nearly as aggressive....mine all have deep burrows, and even though they may not always be in them, just having them, along with a substantial webbing mass (none of mine have ever webbed to the top of their enclosures though) absolutely does make them less easily irritated without question.

I do think husbandry is important with the species.

its important for all species....but housing is different than husbandry....those are two separate things....and fall risk is about housing.

 

[444 critters]

First off, I think you are taking things too far by using the word "must". No one I have ever seen uses such a definitive term for enclosure size. Its more of a suggestion.

But for many, especially slings, a smaller enclosure just makes life easier for you and the spiderling as a spiderling in a small enclosure will burrow less (if at all), eat much more readily and grow significantly quicker as a result.
I did a year long study involving several hundred slings of several terrestrial species and the results were astounding as literally every single one housed in a larger enclosure grew so much slower it was incredible...and there was not a single exception.

Now onto climbing in the wild....no wild t on the planet is living with smooth, tall walls around them...walls of an enclosure induce climbing as its the only option when exploring or wandering, which all ts do from time to time....so its a worry in captivity because the living conditions are completely different and unnatural.



Falling off a piece of bark isn't the issue one needs to be concerned about....falling onto the bark is a bigger issue.....but [heavier bodied terrestrial] ts can and will fall when climbing on smooth walls or when hanging from the top (especially as they get closer to a molt)....captivity offers unnatural dangers that a wild t never sees and that our captive one live with every day and this is why its important to limit falls.


The issue of falling or having too much vertical space does NOT apply to arboreals....its a concern only for terrestrial species that are not built for climbing on high, smooth vertical surfaces.
well, not all do....all fossorials do, but certainly not all terrestrials.
Again, not all arboreals...avics do...but most others actually spend a great deal of time at ground level, and many even burrow in captivity, like violaceopes for example.

But again, this whole fall risk doesn't apply to arboreals, as they are much more skilled climbers with a different body type.
well they are actually fossorial...just exceedingly adaptable which is why so many misunderstand what category they actually fall in....but I totally agree that if housed properly, they aren't nearly as aggressive....mine all have deep burrows, and even though they may not always be in them, just having them, along with a substantial webbing mass (none of mine have ever webbed to the top of their enclosures though) absolutely does make them less easily irritated without question.

its important for all species....but housing is different than husbandry....those are two separate things....and fall risk is about housing.

Hahaha, I'm not retarded, and was simply having a conversation. As for your experiment with slings, (although I house all my Ts in small enclosures until they are 3+ inch.) If I locked you in a coffin and gave you cheese burgers, you would be alot larger then someone in a house eating cheeseburgers. but like previously stated, I'm not here to be argumentative, simply having a discussion. Just because I'm new here don't mean I was born yesterday. I respect all you had to say, as you pretty much picked apart my words and used yours instead. But that's ok. I don't really care. It's just a fun discussion about how we take care of our animals. All mine are healthy and thriving, and if yours are aswell, then I guess there is more then 1 way to skin a cat

 

[cold blood]

Hahaha, I'm not retarded

And when exactly was this said or even implied???

and was simply having a conversation

me as well.

As for your experiment with slings, (although I house all my Ts in small enclosures until they are 3+ inch.) If I locked you in a coffin and gave you cheese burgers, you would be alot larger then someone in a house eating cheeseburgers

totally different...not even remotely close in fact.

I'm not here to be argumentative,

yet you are

Just because I'm new here don't mean I was born yesterday.

where are you getting this and why are you being so defensive?

I respect all you had to say,

sure doesnt seem like it

you pretty much picked apart my words and used yours instead.

Actually, I took my time...and a lot of it...to be as specific with my answers as i could....its called giving a thorough answer...its something only someone who actually cared would take the time to do.

All mine are healthy and thriving,

I would have no reason to expect otherwise.

I guess there is more then 1 way to skin a cat

this is precisely what I was saying with my first answer.

 

[444 critters]

And when exactly was this said or even implied???
me as well.
totally different...not even remotely close in fact.
yet you are
where are you getting this and why are you being so defensive?
sure doesnt seem like it

Actually, I took my time...and a lot of it...to be as specific with my answers as i could....its called giving a thorough answer...its something only someone who actually cared would take the time to do.
I would have no reason to expect otherwise.

this is precisely what I was saying with my first answer.

If i'm wrong, correct me, I prefer to be accurate and informed. But if we are here to highlight each sentence spoken with a opinion, I rather not participate in the conversation. It's a waste of time for me.

Everything known about keeping any animal is learned from trial and error, which is why i will always listen to what someone has to say and their experiences with it. There are always constants in keeping, but there are also many variables. I can tell you are either extremely passionate, or just like busting balls. Hopefully it's the first one and not the ladder or my time here will be short lived. Like previously stated, I do respect what you had to say, because you are bringing knowledge to the table instead of crap, only thing is, alot Is opinion... you can do with that as you will boss. But If we ain't talking husbandry, or enclosure with species specific set ups, then I'm good, I don't want to entertain this portion of the conversation any further.

 

[cold blood]

But if we are here to highlight each sentence spoken with a opinion, I rather not participate in the conversation. It's a waste of time for me.

Well its a feature we have so that we can be more specific with our answers....its actually preferred and why we have the option available....you use this by highlighting a sentence, paragraph or whatever you want to address and use the +Quote feature.....its easy and it really helps answer questions one at a time as opposed to in a big jumble where things could be missed, misinterpreted or misunderstood.....its all about clarity, nothing more and it should never be seen as condescending or anything negative. Being specific saves time, its not a waste of time.

Everything known about keeping any animal is learned from trial and error, which is why i will always listen to what someone has to say and their experiences with it.

Which is why I explained my experiences with the things that have proven to work for me and many others.

There are always constants in keeping, but there are also many variables.

absolutely

I can tell you are either extremely passionate, or just like busting balls.

I have no interest in "busting balls", especially with someone I don't know and have never even had an interaction with.

I do respect what you had to say, because you are bringing knowledge to the table instead of crap, only thing is, alot Is opinion

some of what I wrote is most certainly opinion, some are just plain facts though.

you can do with that as you will boss.

see, it seems like you are being condescending by calling someone you dont know "boss". I am no one's boss, I am just an experienced keeper who likes to help out others, especially newer keepers....and I certainly dont mind having good conversations with anyone about anything interesting.

I don't want to entertain this portion of the conversation any further.

Well that really is what a forum is all about. But no one is forcing you to remain in any conversation you dont want to be in.

 

[444 critters]