E. Pachypus ID? (Stout Leg Baboon)

[raggamuffin415]

Tried to post this in Tarantula ID section but file was too large... not sure where else to put this.

Bought this girl at SF Herp Expo today. Was labeled a Featherleg Baboon (no scientific name provided) but looks nothing like S. Calceatum to me.
Think it's a E. Pachypus or some form of Eucratoscelus. They also had one without the stout back legs, leading me to believe it was a male. Kicking myself for not having bought it now as I read they're rare. They were only $16 each!

Any info on this girl? Thanks!

 

[gobey]

I'm no expert but those back legs look like a pachypus.

Although it looks darker than I thought.

 

[Poec54]

Yes, it's a Eucratoscelus. Another example of common names being worthless, and in this case dangerous. The other African ' featherleg' is an arboreal known for being confrontational. Eucratoscelus is a terrestrial and mild mannered by African standards.

The name 'stout leg' is alwo misleading, as other Africans have thick rear legs, like Hysterocrates and Pelinobius.

Keep it on dry, deep substrate with good cross ventilation. It'll do some serious digging.

 

[raggamuffin415]

Thank you for the info. Tried telling the seller but they seemed uninterested, claiming the breeder they got it from said it was a Featherleg. I know it's a Eucratoscelus, but what species? Is it a E. Pachypus then or different species in the genus?

And yes the lack of scientific names with the few tarantula sellers I encountered was frustrating!

 

[Curious jay]

It's an E. pachypus.

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 09:36 AM ----------

Got a pic of the other one? How big is it, could possibly be E. constrictus I believe they lack the "stout legs".

 

[raggamuffin415]

Didn't buy the other one so no pic. Looked similar to this one but without the stout back legs. Abdomen also had light markings/striping. My girl pictured is about 2.5".

 

[skar]

Looks to be in great shape.
I really like this sp. I would change out the wood chips for peat moss tho.
Nice pick IMO.

 

[raggamuffin415]

That was the container she came in... she's in a beautiful new setup with coco fiber substrate. Didn't ask but I'm assuming she's wild caught as this species is rarely bred in captivity from what I've heard.

 

[gobey]

That was the container she came in... she's in a beautiful new setup with coco fiber substrate. Didn't ask but I'm assuming she's wild caught as this species is rarely bred in captivity from what I've heard.

We need to change that! What a cool T!

 

[WindedFatnNasty]

What a beautiful T! Nice find...now to get that male eventually lol

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

It's an E. pachypus.

---------- Post added 03-23-2015 at 09:36 AM ----------

Got a pic of the other one? How big is it, could possibly be E. constrictus I believe they lack the "stout legs".

E. pachypus is the one in the genus that has highly swollen (incrassate) tibia, metatarsus, and tarsus of leg 4 as seen in the pictures here. E. constrictus only has swollen (incrassate) leg 4 tibia. If the "other one" referred to here does not have either of these characteristics, than it is not a Eucratoscelus species.

See Gallon 2002 for more details.

Gallon, R. C. (2002). Revision of the African genera Pterinochilus and Eucratoscelus (Araneae, Theraphosidae, Harpactirinae) with description of two new genera. Bulletin of the British Arachnological Society 12: 201-232.

 

[MrsHaas]

Cool info! So male E. Pachypus have stout legs too? I was under the impression that not, which is why the other specimen was assumed to be same species but sexually dimorphic.

 

[catfishrod69]

Im not sure if i agree with that. Only thing that i can differentiate between pachypus and constrictus is that pachypus have a more golden color on the carapace, while constrictus is closer to black. Leg size looks the same. I will have to take a closer look at my females to be sure.

E. pachypus is the one in the genus that has highly swollen (incrassate) tibia, metatarsus, and tarsus of leg 4 as seen in the pictures here. E. constrictus only has swollen (incrassate) leg 4 tibia. If the "other one" referred to here does not have either of these characteristics, than it is not a Eucratoscelus species.

See Gallon 2002 for more details.

Gallon, R. C. (2002). Revision of the African genera Pterinochilus and Eucratoscelus (Araneae, Theraphosidae, Harpactirinae) with description of two new genera. Bulletin of the British Arachnological Society 12: 201-232.

 

[gobey]

Are they quite fast with big legs like that?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Cool info! So male E. Pachypus have stout legs too? I was under the impression that not, which is why the other specimen was assumed to be same species but sexually dimorphic.

The mature males do not. I do not know for sure though if the immatures do. I am assuming they do since being in the subfamily Harpactirinae in which the immature males will resemble females and sexual dimorphism occurs upon maturity. You may want to ask on another forum this specific question since I haven't raised a male of this species to maturity myself. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have raised both males and females to maturity since there are pictures out there of mature individuals of both genders.

---------- Post added 04-02-2015 at 06:31 PM ----------

Im not sure if i agree with that. Only thing that i can differentiate between pachypus and constrictus is that pachypus have a more golden color on the carapace, while constrictus is closer to black. Leg size looks the same. I will have to take a closer look at my females to be sure.

Lets get one thing out of the way first. Color is never a good way to determine a species, especially in the Harpactirinae. It's a common bad practice amongst hobbyists to identify a tarantula species based on pictures by other hobbyists that are incorrectly identified. This also happens when two or more live tarantulas are compared that have the wrong scientific name given to it. All too often, the wrong scientific name is given to a tarantula by a seller, breeder, dealer, etc. and it sticks because no one knows any better. These incorrectly identified tarantulas are then used by others to compare with their own thus propagating the wrong identification. In short, just because someone labels their spiders with one name, doesn't mean it's the right one.

Feel free to agree or disagree with the statements I wrote because I was repeating what was published by a respected African theraphosid taxonomist who used type and wild collected specimens to make an analysis. I trust that over the label put on pet trade material.

 

[Curious jay]

The mature males do not. I do not know for sure though if the immatures do. I am assuming they do since being in the subfamily Harpactirinae in which the immature males will resemble females and sexual dimorphism occurs upon maturity. You may want to ask on another forum this specific question since I haven't raised a male of this species to maturity myself. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have raised both males and females to maturity since there are pictures out there of mature individuals of both genders.

---------- Post added 04-02-2015 at 06:31 PM ----------



Lets get one thing out of the way first. Color is never a good way to determine a species, especially in the Harpactirinae. It's a common bad practice amongst hobbyists to identify a tarantula species based on pictures by other hobbyists that are incorrectly identified. This also happens when two or more live tarantulas are compared that have the wrong scientific name given to it. All too often, the wrong scientific name is given to a tarantula by a seller, breeder, dealer, etc. and it sticks because no one knows any better. These incorrectly identified tarantulas are then used by others to compare with their own thus propagating the wrong identification. In short, just because someone labels their spiders with one name, doesn't mean it's the right one.

Feel free to agree or disagree with the statements I wrote because I was repeating what was published by a respected African theraphosid taxonomist who used type and wild collected specimens to make an analysis. I trust that over the label put on pet trade material.

My E. pachypus I raised for sling to MM never displayed any stout legs like the female, he matured around 2.5" his last molt was a large jump in size, what size to females start showing the stout legs? I purchased mine as an adult so didn't get to watch the growth.

 

[catfishrod69]

I completely agree with everything. But unfortunately we must go by what the species is named as when its imported. If its wrong, its near impossible to tell with alot of species.

The mature males do not. I do not know for sure though if the immatures do. I am assuming they do since being in the subfamily Harpactirinae in which the immature males will resemble females and sexual dimorphism occurs upon maturity. You may want to ask on another forum this specific question since I haven't raised a male of this species to maturity myself. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have raised both males and females to maturity since there are pictures out there of mature individuals of both genders.

---------- Post added 04-02-2015 at 06:31 PM ----------



Lets get one thing out of the way first. Color is never a good way to determine a species, especially in the Harpactirinae. It's a common bad practice amongst hobbyists to identify a tarantula species based on pictures by other hobbyists that are incorrectly identified. This also happens when two or more live tarantulas are compared that have the wrong scientific name given to it. All too often, the wrong scientific name is given to a tarantula by a seller, breeder, dealer, etc. and it sticks because no one knows any better. These incorrectly identified tarantulas are then used by others to compare with their own thus propagating the wrong identification. In short, just because someone labels their spiders with one name, doesn't mean it's the right one.

Feel free to agree or disagree with the statements I wrote because I was repeating what was published by a respected African theraphosid taxonomist who used type and wild collected specimens to make an analysis. I trust that over the label put on pet trade material.

 

[catfishrod69]

E. pachypus female #1



E. pachypus female #2



E. constrictus female




Now by comparing these females its very hard to tell the difference. The constrictus had better be constrictus! I just got her, being i have 5 slings to raise up for a breeding project! But going by what this says on the identification, it says that constrictus has, few, long stiffened, setae on retrolateral surfaces of patella and tibia of leg IV. And it says that pachypus has, numerous, long, stiffened russet setae on retrolateral surfaces of patella, tibia, metatarsus and tarsus of leg IV. By looking at the pictures it looks as if my female pachypus have thick long setae, and the female constrictus has less thick long setae. Any thoughts? Here is the website i am going by. http://www.baboonspiders.de/html_en/genera_eucratoscelus.html

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Your E. constrictus is E. pachypus. On the site you referenced, notice on the drawings for the "Leg IV with few, long stiffened, setae on retrolateral surfaces of patella and tibia" that the metatarsus and tarsus are not swollen (highly incrassate). This is the character that defines the difference between the two species. The E. constrictus in your pictures has highly incrassate patella, tibia, metatarsus, and tarsus which makes it E. pachypus.

 

[catfishrod69]

Well thats not good. I didnt notice in the link where it said about the constrictus metatarsus and tarsus are not swollen though.