Duvernoy's gland question

[Professor T]

What's the scope on Duvernoy's gland in kingsnakes and ratsnakes. Any species even mildly venomous to humans? I've heard hognose snakes refered to as mildly venomous...not sure I buy into that. What's your opinion?

 

[Wade]

Hognose snakes definately possess venom, but the fangs are way in the back of the mouth and getting envenomated from a regular bite is uncommon. The venom is indeed very mild. My boss does work with the southern hognose and once got envenomated while assist-feeding one of his captives. He said it was somewhat painful at the site of the bite and he felt a little lighthead a couple hours later, but that was about it. He did not bother getting medical attention.

Every now and then I read some reference to king and rat snakes having some sort of venom, but I've never seen a clear cut explanation of it. I've definately never heard of a person being envenomated by either one of these snakes.

Wade

 

[Crotalus]

Cobra like toxin have been found in the saliva of some ratsnakes (for ex in Coelognathus radiatus - former namned Elaphe radiatus) but its such a small amount that humans dont get effected by it.

Read B.G.Fry´s article on the subject:
http://www.venomdoc.com/downloads/2003_BGF_alpha-colubritoxin.pdf

/Lelle

 

[Phillip]

The article can be a tad confusing but here's the short and sweet of it. North American hognose do have venom but it is specific to their prey and on humans only causes swelling. Garter snakes also posses what could technicaly be called venom but again it is harmless to humans. The rest of the North American colubrids are totally harmless. The colubrids that were tested were mostly Asian Rats and very few of them are considered harmful while a few of them do contain the same toxins as hot snakes in their saliva. The concentration is far too small to do any harm in most species though. The Duvernoys gland is only associated with rear fanged species so it isn't present in most colubrids.

The purpose of BGF writing the paper wasn't to give off the impression that all colubrids are venomous but to show the evolution of venom within snakes. He has stated many times since writing it that that vast majority of colubrids as well as all the North American ones are completely harmless to man.

Phil

 

[Kevo]

The venom of the False Water Cobra has been matched to the Timber Rattle Snake. But because of the way it is delivered and the very low yield it has no where near the same effects on a healthy adult.

 

[Crotalus]

BGF found nothing in Lampropeltis, none in american Elaphe (or former Elaphe) but some in Thamnophis if I remember correct.

/Lelle

 

[Professor T]

Thank you all for that great information, I totally understand now.