Dubia problem. I am frustrated! Please help. *pic*

[LindsayMarie]

Well even after squishing 8-9 about a week or two ago that had "white" on them, resembling maybe a mold or fungus, I found another. When I found the problem, I thoroughly cleaned the container, made sure only "healthy" dubias were put back in (no signs of white) and only gave them a food bowl and aspen. I ordered these guys in a variety order to hopefully raise and then merge with my large dubia colony to add new blood. As it is going it seems I am going to have to kill the small colony or watch them die?! Waste of money and time. What is going on in this colony? The ones with white are weaker and freaky acting. Other normal looking ones are dying out of no where? I have lost 6 normal healthy looking ones in 2 days! (this is NOT counting the deaths since they arrived) Then I found this guy today. The new adult male I put in at the time of the thorough cleaning is still alive with no signs of illness. He is from my colony and I wanted to see if what they had was contagious. Well anyways here is a picture. Maybe someone can help! The one with white is still alive, the one next to it is dead. This is so frustrating as this species is not cheap, you know?

 

[Bigboy]

It looks like it is somehow being drained of its bodily fluids. How are they kept? I'm just getting into roaches and would like very much to know about this malady.

 

[LindsayMarie]

No different then the rest of my roaches. In a rubbermaid container, with small amount of aspen, small paper plate for the dry food, egg crate motel (which I have removed for now) and apples, carrots etc for moisture, with occasional misting. I have never seen this before. I have kept lobsters, hissers, distantis, dubias and now discoids and I had huge colonies of lobsters and now dubias and never saw anything like this!?

 

[LindsayMarie]

Please feel free to e-mail and/or pm me instead of messaging here on the board if you would rather do that. Thanks again for any help! Lindsay

 

[billopelma]

Is the person/place you got them from experiencing the same thing? Should'nt they be taking care of you on this? Considering you already have another successful colony living under similar conditions, It would seem apparent that this is not something you're doing wrong.

Bill

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Ok... what I think you have there is one juvie that has been nibbled on right after his last shed. I've seen such juvies with large gashes in their body and nibbled egdes which can only come from other roaches cannibalizing. And I've only ever seen cannibalism when I've given them too little food.

The other one looks like a mature female, is that right? If it is then it might just be old age. I've had a wave of these die recently and I suspect it's the first generation of matures that has now died out.

 

[Gesticulator]

Hmmm, the larger nymph looks fine (but you say it died), and the smaller.....the "skin problem" You seem to be well versed abt roaches (more so than I as I only keep dubia)...since you cleaned the container and are still seeing the problem, perhaps its being bred (passed on) from the adults??? There is an AB memeber named "Roachman", who may be able to help you.
I'll pm you a copy of this post as well.

 

[siliconthoughts]

It doesn't look like nibbling to me - from the picture it's like the exoskeleton hasn't hardened evenly after a molt. If it were me I'd isolate the odd ones, and see how persistent it is. I read your post a while back but don't remember if you did that. I can't tell from the photo whether the white area is fuzzy like fungus or simply white. If it's fuzzy then I'd ASAP wipe out the whole bunch and sterilize the container.

Honestly, it looks wierd enough you should consider cutting your losses and destroying this group. Whether it is genetic or infection, you don't want it getting into your other colonies. Talk to your supplier and see if there is an issue with their stock, ask for a replacement if there isn't. Or just arrange a swap of some of your healthy colony with someone else, (they should quarantine what you send them).

I don't keep dubia, but if somebody had something wierd come up with a batch of discoids I'd sent them I'd definitely replace them. The only actual out-of-pocket cost is shipping/packaging and that's pretty minimal.

Colin

 

[LindsayMarie]

I have contacted the seller previously and again yesterday. More so in finding out what is going on rather then "fixing" the problem with replacements. Some of these dubias are replacements from a first shipment gone bad where all the discoids died, a good portion of dubias and 1 hisser. So replacements were sent and all is well with the hissers and discoids, VERY MINIMAL deaths, nothing out of the ordinary. The dubias though have some sort of issue, whether contagion of some kind among each other or genetic I am not sure?! As I have yet to hear from anyone who has seen this and/or given me details. I know I cannot be the only one! I need to know if the colony is doomed and capable of dooming my other colonies? The last thing I need is it "spread" to my large (thousands) dubia colony! if it is a genetic thing I can just raise them to feeder size and feed them off. I think its obvious I should not put them in my dubias, even though that was the reason for getting them!

UPDATE: last night when I removed the one w/ white issue in the picture and put it in a smaller container by itself, I saw a recently shedded white one. Now there isnt that many dubias now as quite a few have died off and all are varying size nymphs (except my male adult I put in). Anyways easy to keep track of. Well this same nymph that was white last night is still whitish/grey all over and his/her sides are starting to flake up? hard to explain..... By now it should have its coloring back, not still be the color of a 2 hour old shedded nymph. Plus there should be no flaking of its sides! Kind of like the waxy layer they have is coming off during a shed and what doesnt come off eventually gets some color to? I dont know. I am probably way off.... Just ideas! HELP!?

 

[siliconthoughts]

I have contacted the seller previously and again yesterday. More so in finding out what is going on rather then "fixing" the problem with replacements.

Ok, I just figured from your comment "This is so frustrating as this species is not cheap, you know?" that the cost was the issue. It is a curious problem.

The last thing I need is it "spread" to my large (thousands) dubia colony! if it is a genetic thing I can just raise them to feeder size and feed them off.

Why bother raising them just to feed off when you have another colony of thousands? I guess I just don't see it as a good tradeoff, wasting a few roaches vs. unknown risk to the big colony. Even if it's just due to some environmental factor that happened in transit, do you really still plan to blend the two colonies? If it were me I'd just say "sorry guys" and end them while the problem was contained. I realize that's not what you want to hear... It probably wouldnt' be what I'd want to hear either.

You're in New York right? The entomology department at SUNY may have someone who is more well versed in insect diseases and defects. Ag departments and environmental science programs are pretty interested in that kind of thing.

 

[LindsayMarie]

Why bother raising them just to feed off when you have another colony of thousands? I guess I just don't see it as a good tradeoff, wasting a few roaches vs. unknown risk to the big colony. Even if it's just due to some environmental factor that happened in transit, do you really still plan to blend the two colonies? If it were me I'd just say "sorry guys" and end them while the problem was contained. I realize that's not what you want to hear... It probably wouldnt' be what I'd want to hear either.

I dont know!? Its hard for me to just kill 30 or so "heathly" looking roaches. I am not sure feeding them to my dragons is a good idea right now as I have no idea if they are going to display signs? So that would mean squishing one by one and that is just hard. I am a sensitive person, heck everytime I feed my dragons I feel bad for a while...lol

Also this is just weird and I am curious. They dont seem to be in pain when they turn this whitish color, nor are they dying right away. It seems to happen after a shed. This one guy who shed over 24 hours ago is still whitish grey! Its no wonder their sides are turning white, they are probably drying out before they harden (get their colors back). This is odd. I may start to worry and kill them all off at some point soon. Right now I am on a mission for some answers, or ideas, etc.... SOMEONE else must be having this issue....

 

[siliconthoughts]

LindsayMarie - If you do get a definitive answer, please post it!

(I hate squishing them too. I'm ok with freezing them, and have no issues about feeding them, but squishing them is a bit too personal. Especially the big ones.)

 

[LindsayMarie]

If I get a definite or close to definite answer I will post it! I know I am not the only one with this issue. Maybe this post just isnt reaching everyone or people dont want to say? In any case the roach died Not sure if he died because of the "white" over taking him or because I seperated him into another container by himself. At any rate he is dead.

 

[LindsayMarie]

Just wanted to keep this post updated for those who may have an issue like this in the future. Unfortunately more have died. I removed 3 that were at the top (they appeared healthy, no white). I didnt want to rustle through the substrate as I want to minimize their stress, you know? I am down to the teens now. I will probably check again later tonight or tommorrow to see if more have "turned white".

It looks like I may have to kill them all off, just to be safe. Or leave them (no looking for white or dead ones) completely alone (except every other day feedings) and see what happens. I will let you all know.

Oh and for the record replacements have been offered and the supplier is A+++ (done a few sales/trades), things happen and yes believe it or not its not always someones fault!!!!!!

Thanks, Lindsay

 

[JohnxII]

To me it looks like a dehydrated roach tried to molt, got stuck in the old skin and hardened. It does happen to some of mine (different species and rare case). But you said the healthy looking ones within the batch also died... so I have no idea...

 

[LindsayMarie]

To me it looks like a dehydrated roach tried to molt, got stuck in the old skin and hardened. It does happen to some of mine (different species and rare case). But you said the healthy looking ones within the batch also died... so I have no idea...

How they would be dehydrated I do not know. The container is kept the same as all my other bins, with plenty of fruits and/or veggies (along with dry food), occasional misting if needed. They dont seem to be having a problem shedding. Rather they are shedding but not getting all their pigment back like they are supposed to and the sides "flake" like in the pic. Weird. I still have no idea. I havent taken a close look in a few. I should probably do that today. I was just trying to leave them alone except feeding/watering.

 

[bugmankeith]

Sometimes my b.giganteus nymphs shed and either their antennae or legs remained white until their next shed. After the next shed they looked perfectly normal and developed into healthy adults.

 

[LindsayMarie]

I am not sure exactly what happened with these guys. Because they were outside stock I just didnt want to take the chance. I ended up killing the remaining ones off. Rather be safe then sorry! I have a large established dubia colony, a smaller established hisser colony and I am trying to get a small established discoid colony going. The last thing I needed was this problem to pass into one of the other colonies (assuming it may have been something transmittable?!) Oh well.....