Discussion for Leiurus quinquestriatus venom.

[NoS]

After reading a recent thread concerning a gentlemen that was holding his death stalker, I got interested in reading reports and studies done on people being stung.

I found this study interesting and wanted to see what you guys thought.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1678-91992003000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

I do find it also intriguing that the death rates were very low.

Only one death was recorded due to scorpion stings in Qassiem area. The victim was a 12-year old boy who died of pulmonary edema, haematemesis, severe neurotoxicity, and circulatory failure.

Furthermore read the part about where the total death rates are very high in Mexico area and not so high in the Saudi Arabia area where the death stalker is more prevelant.

Also

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-91992003000100004&lng=en&nrm=iso

 

[fscorpion]

After reading a recent thread concerning a gentlemen that was holding his death stalker, I got interested in reading reports and studies done on people being stung.

I found this study interesting and wanted to see what you guys thought.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1678-91992003000100003&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

I do find it also intriguing that the death rates were very low.


Furthermore read the part about where the total death rates are very high in Mexico area and not so high in the Saudi Arabia area where the death stalker is more prevelant.

Also

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-91992003000100004&lng=en&nrm=iso

That is probably because the area where Leiurus lives is not very populated and scorpions don't come close to houses and people, which is not the case in Mexico where scorpions can come very close to people as it is a very popualted region, I think that Tityus and Centruroides can couse severe problems there...

 

[NoS]

Actually you should read the whole thing.

Comparing scorpion sting death rate in this study to that of other countries, we can conclude that the scorpion sting syndrome in Saudi Arabia does not carry the same degree of threat that has been reported in other countries despite the high rate of scorpion stings.

So the sting rate is high.

 

[Prymal]

NoS-

Note that the paper indicates the low incidence of mortality due to the availability of medical facilities and the use of anti-venin in treatment. It does not indicate how this scenario would turn out if the report centered on villages and small towns in underdeveloped and developing regions throughout the world.

In many developing regions, such medical facilities are not readily accessible and in many cases, do not exist and if they do, are located in larger urban areas, often far from outlying villages and towns. Of such facilities in underdeveloped and developing regions, how many medical facilities have adequate supplies of anti-venin available, if any at all?
In such regions, physical factors such as body mass and the health of each individual victim, pre-existing medical conditions, stress due to malnutrition, dehydration, etc. must be considered as well as the species of scorpion, if an actual envenomation occurred, how much, if any, venom was injected, etc.
The paper cited, presents a good example of the importance and effectiveness of having proper medical facilities stocked with adequate supplies of anti-venin, in treatment of scorpion envenomations. However, in many regions of the world, such a paper might present a much more grim outcome of scorpion envenomations, and assuredly, much higher incidences of morbidity and mortality.

Luc

 

[ReptileMan27]

Everything I ever read or heard on scorpions and their venom was that they really are only deadly to young children. I personally dont want to find out either way lol.

 

[Prymal]

Jason-

Typically, children, the elderly and those with pre-existing health conditions.

Luc

 

[Jmadson13]

Also keep in mind the slow acting effects of Lierus sp. venom; it's very possible that the statistics slip through the cracks occaisionally.

 

[Kugellager]

Actually you should read the whole thing.

So the sting rate is high.

Yes they indicate that scorpion sting rate in Saudi Arabia is high but they do not indicate that all (or most for that matter) are L.q. L.q is one of the 3 indicated but not neccesarily the most common. And once again it appears the ID is left up to people NOT trained in scorpion ID. As we all know many scorpions 'look' similar. There are many other species in S.A. and the mideast other than those three that sting people.

In addition...nearly 1/2 the stings were at night which make ID more difficult and more tha 65% that were stung were over 15...and therefore of adult or nearly adult sized/aged. Most normal adults in good health will not be killed by any scorpion sting...S.A has fairly good health care and medical facilities...etc...etc.

Regardless...I would not want to risk my life by getting tagged by L.q. ...or any other medically significant scorpion for that matter.

John
];')

 

[woodson]

I only know it is very dangerous, but how many people will die because of it?
Who knows?

 

[hamfoto]

numbers that you can find are that an estimated 10,000 people around the world die each year from scorpion stings...

Chris

 

[Venom]

NoS, you have to take into consideration a number of factors. First, how venomous are the scorpions? It is a well known fact that Leiurus, Androctonus sp. have far more dangerous stings than Centruroides sp., so you really can't entertain any notion the the low number of deaths is from a less dangerous sting by these scorpions.

Secondly, you need to know the relative abundance of the life-threatening scorpions. How many scorpions are actually in the area, and how many of the scorpions are medically significant species? If Mexican towns have a higher overall scorpion population than Arabian towns, then of course they are going to have more envenomations, and hence more fatal envenomations. And what about the non-dangerous scorps? As Kugellager says, we don't know what scorps are causing these stings, so as far as we know half of them could be from benign species, which would make the number of stings from venomous scorps lower. As it happens, rural Mexican towns are absolutely infested with scorpions, and most of them are Centruroides.

Add to this the difference in medical resources and Mexico's impoverished condition, and it makes sense that more people would die in Mexico even if there is the same number of stings in both countries. Saying that Mexico's scorps are more dangerous than Arabia's because more people have died in MX is like that because more people have died in the US from black widows than have died in Australia from Sydneys, black widows must be more dangerous-- it's absurd. The statistics really don't reflect the "dangerousness" of the animals, so there must be other factors at work to cause the discrepancy.

 

[quinquestriatus]

numbers that you can find are that an estimated 10,000 people around the world die each year from scorpion stings...

Chris

Yeah.... but, out of those 10,000 people how many are kids and or elderly and what's their health status? LQ venom may act slower in one persons body and in another travel pretty quick. You have to factor in age, health, location of the sting, etc. Every sting is going to be different. No one person is going to have the exact same affects as another person. LQ's have way to bad of a rep. and their venom in my opinion can cause damage. You might get sick, be hospitalized, have uncontrollable vomiting, have all kinds of other problems and pain but, in my opinion a truely healthy adult wont die from the venom. That healthy adult might have long term effects from the venom too or he might have nothing. We still have a lot to learn about the venom of these beautiful scorps. Maybe one day we as "arachnid hobbiest" will learn more in depth about the venoms long term as well as the short term effects. I certainly do hope that we can lift the bad rep of these scorps and their venom.

 

[Venom]

You might get sick, be hospitalized, have uncontrollable vomiting, have all kinds of other problems and pain but, in my opinion a truely healthy adult wont die from the venom....

We still have a lot to learn about the venom of these beautiful scorps. Maybe one day we as "arachnid hobbiest" will learn more in depth about the venoms long term as well as the short term effects. I certainly do hope that we can lift the bad rep of these scorps and their venom.

Well then, why don't you guinea-pig this one for us. I'm sure you'd learn a lot...

 

[hamfoto]

Yeah.... but, out of those 10,000 people how many are kids and or elderly and what's their health status? LQ venom may act slower in one persons body and in another travel pretty quick. You have to factor in age, health, location of the sting, etc. Every sting is going to be different. No one person is going to have the exact same affects as another person. LQ's have way to bad of a rep. and their venom in my opinion can cause damage. You might get sick, be hospitalized, have uncontrollable vomiting, have all kinds of other problems and pain but, in my opinion a truely healthy adult wont die from the venom. That healthy adult might have long term effects from the venom too or he might have nothing. We still have a lot to learn about the venom of these beautiful scorps. Maybe one day we as "arachnid hobbiest" will learn more in depth about the venoms long term as well as the short term effects. I certainly do hope that we can lift the bad rep of these scorps and their venom.

I would agree with you...

 

[quinquestriatus]

Venom: I look forward to testing out the effects of the LQ venom and many other scorps venom that not much is known about. But, for now I get a kick out of testing it on it's prey items. Maybe one day after I finish up my degree I'll go ahead and test it. And I'll get paid to do it. I'm not scared of LQ venom. I respect it though and I truely do believe it wont kill a healthy adult. It's people like you that give LQ's a bad rep. And my goal is to have as few stings as possible through my life. I don't plan to be a "guinea pig".

 

[Aviculariinae]

numbers that you can find are that an estimated 10,000 people around the world die each year from scorpion stings...

Chris

I Find it very hard to believe that nearly 10,000 people die from scorpion stings each year!

 

[quinquestriatus]

I Find it very hard to believe that nearly 10,000 people die from scorpion stings each year!

It's just an estimation. A lot of the info. slips through the cracks as Jamison said earlier in this thread. In these third world countries it's hard to give an exact amount of deaths do to scorpion envenomation. There could actually be more deaths or it could be possible that there are less. Until we develope a better way to get this info. we can only give estimations. Take robberies in america for instance. Not all robberies are reported so they can only give an estimation on how many occur each year. It's the exact same with scorp stings. And I feel Kugellager said it best:

And once again it appears the ID is left up to people NOT trained in scorpion ID. As we all know many scorpions 'look' similar. There are many other species in S.A. and the mideast other than those three that sting people.

In addition...nearly 1/2 the stings were at night which make ID more difficult[/QOUTE]
Which is a HUGE factor in these estimations.