Differences in desert hairy ??

skar

skar

Arachnobaron
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I got a really large desert hairy the other night :p
I've read there are different types and was hoping on some guidance on telling them apart .??
spadix - arizonensis - hirsutus

I think I have a spadix .. shrug
 
Greenjewls

Greenjewls

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dont forget pallidus! Pallidus seems to get bigger than the other "types". I say types because I dont wanna get into the species/subspecies thing, k. Spadix seems to be the best climber (cliff dweller) and most defensive, or "aggressive" if you will. um dont forget to watch my advance desert hairy care video :D
 
AzJohn

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Greenjewls said:
dont forget pallidus! Pallidus seems to get bigger than the other "types". I say types because I dont wanna get into the species/subspecies thing, k. Spadix seems to be the best climber (cliff dweller) and most defensive, or "aggressive" if you will. um dont forget to watch my advance desert hairy care video :D
Click to expand...
Their is no pallidus. The species being sold as that are really Hadrurus arizonensis. Many species of scorpions have different morphs, usually limited to a different area or environment. This is one of those cases.
 
Smokehound714

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Many desert animals will have a more pallid coloration in regions with pale sand.

You see this in many scorpions, like paruroctonus silvestrii, the specimens found near the coastline are often very pallid, while specimens you find in wooded areas, near streams, are often much darker.

You see this in anuroctonus, as well. Some are a more mahogany color, others much less so.

It's also common in spiders. Agelenopsis aperta found in areas dominated by grass, are often pale, matching the color of the dead grass, but specimens found around live vegetation in shaded areas are often much darker, with higher contrast.
 
Greenjewls

Greenjewls

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AzJohn said:
Their is no pallidus. The species being sold as that are really Hadrurus arizonensis. Many species of scorpions have different morphs, usually limited to a different area or environment. This is one of those cases.
Click to expand...
Please don't say "there is no pallidus"! Even though it is the same species, it still deserves mention here because it is different (in my experience of observing thousands of Hadrurus in the wild) from the "typical" H. arizonensis in these ways:
#1: in appearance because it has a all-over yellow color instead of a grey back, and less pigmentation all over
#2: in size, "pallidus" attains larger size on average and also a greater maximum size of 5+" and the largest I've seen in the "typical" is about 4.8"
#3 in temperament "pallidus" seems on average calmer and less defensive
#4 the sting of "pallidus" is typically less painful due to smaller dosage or possibly having a milder venom cocktail.
#5 as you mentioned "pallidus" is limited to a different area or environment, further south and/or lower elevation and sandier substrate.
The distinction should be made by the buyer and the seller, and in general conversation, to bundle these subtle differences into a key word "pallidus". Don't you agree? Also note, the OP is asking about differences in types of desert hairys.

---------- Post added 10-06-2013 at 02:19 PM ----------

and Skar, will you post a pic?
 
AzJohn

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Greenjewls said:
Please don't say "there is no pallidus"! Even though it is the same species, it still deserves mention here because it is different (in my experience of observing thousands of Hadrurus in the wild) from the "typical" H. arizonensis in these ways:
#1: in appearance because it has a all-over yellow color instead of a grey back, and less pigmentation all over
#2: in size, "pallidus" attains larger size on average and also a greater maximum size of 5+" and the largest I've seen in the "typical" is about 4.8"
#3 in temperament "pallidus" seems on average calmer and less defensive
#4 the sting of "pallidus" is typically less painful due to smaller dosage or possibly having a milder venom cocktail.
#5 as you mentioned "pallidus" is limited to a different area or environment, further south and/or lower elevation and sandier substrate.
The distinction should be made by the buyer and the seller, and in general conversation, to bundle these subtle differences into a key word "pallidus". Don't you agree? Also note, the OP is asking about differences in types of desert hairys.

---------- Post added 10-06-2013 at 02:19 PM ----------

and Skar, will you post a pic?
Click to expand...
Their is no pallidus. They are Hadrurus arizonensis. If you want to say they are the pale color form, that's fine. Calling them H pallidus is misleading and confusing, and in some cases unethical. The whole point of giving a species a name is to keep confusion to a minimum. When dealers and hobbyist start calling a known species something different, "just because", all we are doing is asking for mistakes to happen and continuing an incorrect assumption.

---------- Post added 10-06-2013 at 05:52 PM ----------
ShredderEmp said:
Is it Hadrurus arizonensis pallidus or a color form?
Click to expand...
Just a color form, not a subspecies. Their is no Hadrurus arizonensis pallidus.
 
G

Galapoheros

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It looks like "pallidus" as a morph has already taken hold in the hobby, don't know if it will change. It may go the same way with the Scolopendra heros centipede.
 
~Abyss~

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AzJohn said:
Their is no pallidus. The species being sold as that are really Hadrurus arizonensis. Many species of scorpions have different morphs, usually limited to a different area or environment. This is one of those cases.
Click to expand...
John is this official I thought the current taxonomy is H.arizonensis pallidus, as in a sub-species of H.arizonesis
 
AzJohn

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~Abyss~ said:
John is this official I thought the current taxonomy is H.arizonensis pallidus, as in a sub-species of H.arizonesis
Click to expand...
They were in 1976. In current text, the only subspecies I've seen for H.a is Hadrurus arizonensis austrinus. Unless things change, I'm going to say that H.arizonensis pallidus is not a valid subspecies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3088340/ check when they mention the species in the genus at the beginning of the article.
 
G

Galapoheros

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Type in arizonensis pallidus pdf, you will find the info eventually. It's important to type in "pdf" in the search. It wasn't really mentioned as a subspecies in the thread anyway but I see people refer to it as Hadrurus arizonensis "pallidus" morph. I think it's stuck as being labeled "pallidus" morph. It could be confusing for a while but I think calling it that would be understood over time if it keeps going that way and kept in parenthesis and including "morph". Just like forms of Scolopendra heros might go something like Scolopendra heros "castaneiceps" morph, Scolopendra heros "heros" morph, Scolopendra heros "arizonensis" morph. But who knows, maybe next year another study will place it back as a subspecies, the lines are not so clear for some things.
 
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skar

skar

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Greenjewls said:
[/COLOR]and Skar, will you post a pic?
Click to expand...
Absolutely !! Just give me a bit; I'll be more than happy to post her :)

I appreciate the responses. I'm having trouble differentiating the types or sp. of giant hairy's.
There are a lot more variety of these than I thought .. crazy .

---------- Post added 10-08-2013 at 12:42 PM ----------


She's a bit dusty that was her first night checking out her new home.
 
Greenjewls

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Looks like H. arizonensis. In H. spadix the face would be black even in front of the eyes, and the pincers would have pigment as well. Need a better pic of the "face" :D
 
AzJohn

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~Abyss~ said:
[/COLOR]Also I think pallidus is still considered a sub species.
http://research.amnh.org/users/lorenzo/PDF/Francke.2008.SB.Hadrurus.pdf
Click to expand...
Here's where the debate happens. Taxonomy is all about who published last. Fet, Soleglad, & Barker named H a pallidus a junior synonym of H a arizonensis in 2001. Here is a more recent published paper (2011) of the listing the species in the genus and the identifying characteristics of each species and subspecies. pallidus is not present. http://www.science.marshall.edu/fet/euscorpius/p2011_112_1.pdf
 
skar

skar

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I really think the dirt that I poured on top of her; has misconstrued the coloration.
Either way it doesn't matter I think she's cool. I will bother her again soon and snap another pic later on.
So is it coloration that sets them apart or are there other more obvious identifiers ?
 
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