D. diadema Communal Q's

[BobBarley]

So, I have an extremely large enclosure that is 12" wide, 24" long, and 24" tall. I hope to put some amblies into it, but I have a few questions. First off, I have researched D. diadema, but they seem to not be the most communal. Though, if D. diadema is the way to go, I will go that way.

1. What species would you put into it and how many?(I'm looking for more, inexpensive options that do well communally. I've seen some small ones such as the P. marginemaculatus though I'm not sure I'd like those to start off with.)

2. Are isopods a good idea? If so, what species would be the best?

Thanks ahead of time!

 

[Kickass119]

From what i've read, p marginemaculatus will do fine in any ratio as they arent very competetive. D diadema however you'll want to avoid having multiple males in a small space. I think in the space provided you'd do fine with,a male and one or two females.

 

[Kickass119]

And dwarf purples are what im using

 

[BobBarley]

Cool, thanks! Do the isopods sometimes get eaten? Also if there is a gravid female would you move her or keep her in the communal setup?

 

[wizentrop]

I would strongly advise against a communal setup for Amblypygi, unless you have one of the communal Heterophrynus species like H. batesii. Sure, you can house a few D. diadema's together but unless they were raised together from an early stage, they usually end up not getting along, with one taking over eventually and getting the upper hand in capturing food. If you do get your hands on a gravid female then you have better starting conditions for a communal setup - just leave her with the babies and they will grow into one big happy family

Isopods (or springtails) are indeed recommended as "cleaning crew". And yes, they do get eaten occasionally, although it seems that Damon don't really like them compared to other genera.

 

[BobBarley]

I would strongly advise against a communal setup for Amblypygi, unless you have one of the communal Heterophrynus species like H. batesii. Sure, you can house a few D. diadema's together but unless they were raised together from an early stage, they usually end up not getting along, with one taking over eventually and getting the upper hand in capturing food. If you do get your hands on a gravid female then you have better starting conditions for a communal setup - just leave her with the babies and they will grow into one big happy family

Isopods (or springtails) are indeed recommended as "cleaning crew". And yes, they do get eaten occasionally, although it seems that Damon don't really like them compared to other genera.

Thanks! So, I should either find a gravid female D. diadema, buy sibling babies, or get H. batesii... Got it thanks!

Edit: On an after thought, would one pair of D. diadema work if I couldn't find a gravid female?

 

[wizentrop]

Yes, sibling babies are a good way to start. And very often many females offered on sale are WC gravid, I do not support this but it is the sad truth.
Keep in mind that the enclosure size is critical when housing several specimens together, as some amblys like to have some personal space. And food must be abundant to avoid competition.
The big terrarium you have can be perfect for some adult H.batesii! (D. diadema are more compact despite their size and don't need such a big space)

 

[BobBarley]

Nice, I'd love some H. batesii, I just wish they were more readily available lol.

 

[wizentrop]

Regarding your previous question - you can definitely keep a pair of D. diadema together in a big enclosure. Breeding takes time, A LOT of time, so you need some patience with these guys When the female produces an egg sac she becomes more secretive and shies away from the male, but in a big enclosure this will not be a problem.

This reminds me a visit to the invertebrate collection at the zoo here, where they keep a D. diadema "empire": a huge group of several hundreds animals housed in a big terrarium, with only the oldest pair practically breeding. Almost like a termite colony in a sense.

 

[BobBarley]

Sounds interesting... I'll probably keep either a pair of D. diadema, or some H. batesii for this enclosure.

 

[schmiggle]

I'd advise against H. batesii, only because of the 12" dimension for the enclosure. Since they can have a legspan of 18" or more, it would probably be a little cramped.

 

[BobBarley]

You sure?

I'd advise against H. batesii, only because of the 12" dimension for the enclosure. Since they can have a legspan of 18" or more, it would probably be a little cramped.

 

[wizentrop]

I'd advise against H. batesii, only because of the 12" dimension for the enclosure. Since they can have a legspan of 18" or more, it would probably be a little cramped.

schmiggle, you'd be surprised how well H. batesii handles cramped spaces. I found them many times in the wild - the tree cavities they occupy are not exactly very spacious, and most of the times the animals lie on top of each other. The only critical moment is during molting, the whip spider needs unobstructed vertical space to successfully release the antenniform legs. But if it positions itself on the top mesh of the tank it will have no problem. In any case, BobBarley's terrarium is huge and can house a small group of H. batesii (2-3) in my opinion.

 

[BobBarley]

schmiggle, you'd be surprised how well H. batesii handles cramped spaces. I found them many times in the wild - the tree cavities they occupy are not exactly very spacious, and most of the times the animals lie on top of each other. The only critical moment is during molting, the whip spider needs unobstructed vertical space to successfully release the antenniform legs. But if it positions itself on the top mesh of the tank it will have no problem. In any case, BobBarley's terrarium is huge and can house a small group of H. batesii (2-3) in my opinion.

Do you know a source for H. batesii?

 

[MWAInverts]

I don't see them offered much, if at all anymore. You can try contacting Orin McGonigle, I do believe he goes by Elytra and Antenna here.

 

[BobBarley]

I don't see them offered much, if at all anymore. You can try contacting Orin McGonigle, I do believe he goes by Elytra and Antenna here.

Alright, thanks!

 

[wizentrop]

Yup, in the US the main source (and most likely the only one) for H. batesii is Orin McGonigle. He will not ship them during the wintertime, as whip spiders are super-sensitive to cold.

I have a large group of my own originating from a different locality, and I will be offering a few babies for sale in Canada in a matter of days. However, because shipping these guys is tricky during the winter, I will only offer them locally. With some patience they will become more and more available soon.

 

[schmiggle]

schmiggle, you'd be surprised how well H. batesii handles cramped spaces. I found them many times in the wild - the tree cavities they occupy are not exactly very spacious, and most of the times the animals lie on top of each other. The only critical moment is during molting, the whip spider needs unobstructed vertical space to successfully release the antenniform legs. But if it positions itself on the top mesh of the tank it will have no problem. In any case, BobBarley's terrarium is huge and can house a small group of H. batesii (2-3) in my opinion.

Very interesting, wizentrop! BobBarley, Peter Clausen (bugsincyberspace) occasionally has them for sale as well.

 

[BobBarley]

Very interesting, wizentrop! BobBarley, Peter Clausen (bugsincyberspace) occasionally has them for sale as well.

I've seen him selling D. diadema and Phrynus spp. but never H. batesii. I'll keep checking though, thanks!

 

[Ranitomeya]

Damon diadema can be kept in male and female pairs, but I do not suggest keeping two males or two females within the same enclosure.

If that bag of Kaytee wood bedding is meant for the enclosure, I would recommend finding some coconut fiber or husk substrate instead. Wood will mold in humid enclosures and if it's softwood, I would not recommended it for use with invertebrates.

I keep an unrelated pair of Damon diadema and they tend to stick to their own pieces of bark, but will occasionally rest near each other. The female's older and twice the size of the male. She killed the two other females that were in the enclosure on the day she produced an egg sac. She tolerates the male's presence even when she's holding onto an egg sac, but she apparently did not want to have any other females around. They're living with a few dozen of their offspring and she's just produced her third egg sac this year without molting. So far, there's been no observed cannibalism occurring, but I can't say whether or not siblings from different broods will tolerate one anothet since the first brood was devoured by some hungry adult lateralis that the adults didn't eat.