Cupennius venom

[Crotalus]

I read the Jacobi add and it states that the two Cupennius species listed have medical significant venom. Cupennius are not known to have potent venom and only Phoneutria so far of the ctenids are considered dangerous.
I just thought I might point this out.

/Lelle

 

[JPD]

Did you mention it to Michael?

 

[Crotalus]

Yes I did.

 

[Jonathan]

Hello,
Crotalus, Thanks for posting this! I didn't think they did, but began to question myself.
Jon

 

[Michael Jacobi]

Correct spelling = Cupiennius

I suppose it depends on your definition of "medically significant". In my role as dealer selling to people of vastly different experience levels, I would rather err on the side of caution. I don't have time right now to search through the bite reports on this site to see if there is any first hand knowledge. Lelle, have you personally experienced envenomation from Cupiennius? Based on the neurotoxic components and the proven fact that Cupiennius "inject" more venom when attacking larger prey, I personally treat mine like they are dangerous. You are all free to do as you choose

Interesting reading:

http://dcbwww.unibe.ch/dcbneu/research/chimia-pdf/Schaller.pdf
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/202/15/2083
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15066412&dopt=Abstract

Cheers, Michael

 

[Stefan2209]

Hi there,

next to different analyses, all stating the very same, that Cupiennius toxin is indeed completely harmless to humans, the perhaps most important point is:

It´s really not that easy to make them bite.

Even if you give them all the reasons in the world to bite, they just prefer to run and hide or just hunker down and play dead.

Only objective risk, that one is running with a bite of a member of this genus, are just the same troubles a bite of any other spider can get you into:

- allergic reaction
- secondary infection

Greetings,

Stefan

 

[Crotalus]

I suppose it depends on your definition of "medically significant". In my role as dealer selling to people of vastly different experience levels, I would rather err on the side of caution. I don't have time right now to search through the bite reports on this site to see if there is any first hand knowledge. Lelle, have you personally experienced envenomation from Cupiennius? Based on the neurotoxic components and the proven fact that Cupiennius "inject" more venom when attacking larger prey, I personally treat mine like they are dangerous. You are all free to do as you choose

Interesting reading:

http://dcbwww.unibe.ch/dcbneu/research/chimia-pdf/Schaller.pdf
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/abstract/202/15/2083
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15066412&dopt=Abstract

Cheers, Michael

No I havent experienced envenomation from these or any other venomous animal except wasps and a scorpion but that is no must to have a opinion about them.
They have not the neurotoxin components that would make a bite dangerous to us humans. To their prey its another matter
To be on the safe side you should tag all scorpions with the same label since scorpion venom can cause anaphylaxis. But you dont do that right?
Just because Cupiennus are a ctenid and distant related to Phoneutria doesnt make them any more dangerous then the average tarantula.
The links you provided are interesting but they only discuss the neurotoxic components the venom have and how the spider use of the venom to subdue a prey. All spiders have neurotoxic components - that itself are no indicator that the species are dangerous. Its how those components react in a human body that are of interest.

The thing is, when you as a arachnid magazine publisher / dealer state that these spiders are dangerous - people might take that as a fact. When its merely your own personal view and nothing else.

This is an interesting article on the genus:
http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v22_n1/JoA_v22_p32.pdf#search="Cupiennius"

 

[Sheri]

I don't have time right now to search through the bite reports on this site to see if there is any first hand knowledge. Lelle, have you personally experienced envenomation from Cupiennius?
Cheers, Michael

I dunno... I haven't been tagged by any C. viridis, yet I'm pretty sure I know they're dangerous.

Sort of like the G. pulchra here - never been envenomated by that either, but there is no data to support that it would injure me.



I remember last year Dwayne had purchased one off you and truly believed it to be medically significant (as much so as nigriventer) - so buyers can indeed come away with incorrect information - and wrong is wrong even with the best intentions.

 

[hamfoto]

I'm so glad this thread was started...I have commented numerous times here on the boards and to people first-hand about their venom and the myths going on about it because of their "very distant" relation to Phoneutria (which will probably be changed soon to make them even more distantly related).
Dr. Friedrich G. Barth has probably done more research on Cupiennius than anyone else, it seems. Read his book "A Spider's World - Senses and Behavior" and you'll get a great deal of information about their behavior as well as venom toxicity and first-hand accounts of being bit.

Chris

 

[Crotalus]

Thanks for the book tip! I will try get hold of a copy.

 

[Michael Jacobi]

I stand corrected. Even at this year's Arachnocon - where Jamison "Brigebane" Madson donated over a dozen Cupiennius coccineus spiderlings as door prizes - we were telling people that they had a significant bite and, if won, they could exchange them for another spider. However, I have no regrets about that since even if they are completely harmless, they still are delicate early instars more suited for experienced keepers.

I'm about to pack up a large female C. salei to ship this evening... should I let it bite me? I still prefer first-hand knowledge.

All the best,

Michael

PS - It's SO cute when couples stick together. Somebody tell my wife.
PSS - Happy Birthday, Lelle. I don't look at the Watering Hole - except for a few days of MMA talk - so I won't see the thread there.

 

[Crotalus]

Of course you should let it bite you - go crazy!

Thanks Michael!