copper in water

[Heriberto7]

Reptile keepers put copper in their water bowls for their reptiles to kill bacteria. Is it safe to do the same for Tarantulas?

 

[DomGom TheFather]

No

 

[Neonblizzard]

Just change the water regularly and problem solved

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

No

Why wouldn't it be safe to add copper to a tarantula's drinking water?

 

[Smotzer]

Don’t know if it is safe or unsafe to use copper.

But I don’t really see any need whatsoever to add anything to a water bowl when it can be taken out, washed, and refilled in 1-2min tops. Why complicate the simple?

 

[DomGom TheFather]

Why wouldn't it be safe to add copper to a tarantula's drinking water?

Copper is regularly used as a pesticide and fungicide. Granted, this is usually in the form of copper sulfate. I don't think it's really necessary and may indeed be harmful. Could be wrong but what's the benefit? Why even take the risk? It's not beneficial.

 

[DaveM]

No, not safe. I agree with @DomGom TheFather. Copper compounds are used to control (kill) invertebrate populations, like freshwater snails that spread Schistosoma (blood flukes), and termites (wood gets treated with copper-based insecticides).
Invertebrates are much more sensitive to copper levels than vertebrates. It has to do with hemolymph versus blood chemistry and metal ion uptake.
The invertebrate oxygen carrier hemocyanin in hemolymph uses copper as the coordinating transition metal ion, much as our vertebrate hemoglobin in blood uses iron in the coordination complex. You might notice that hemolymph is mostly clear or colorless unless it gets spilled out in a thin layer exposed to the air and highly saturated with oxygen. Copper(I) "cuprous" ion is colorless, but it turns more blue/cyan when it binds oxygen and transitions to Copper(II) "cupric" ion.
So, invertebrates take up copper efficiently, but are very sensitive to too much environmental copper and are easily poisoned, in much the same way that we take up iron efficiently, but are very sensitive to iron overdoses / iron poisoning.

Someone will say that pure copper doesn't dissolve well in pure degassed water (mostly true, though our water isn't at all likely to be pure or degassed). Copper will readily form very soluble salts (like cupric carbonate just with dissolved carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, or cuprous and cupric oxides with dissolved oxygen).

 

[Heriberto7]

I thought it would be ok but being new to the hobby I thought of getting a second opinion.
Thanks

Copper is regularly used as a pesticide and fungicide. Granted, this is usually in the form of copper sulfate. I don't think it's really necessary and may indeed be harmful. Could be wrong but what's the benefit? Why even take the risk? It's not beneficial.

Thanks I am glad I mentioned it after all. Sometimes you second guess yourself and it's always best to ask people that know more about a subject before you do something harmful to one's pets.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Reptile keepers put copper in their water bowls

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this isn't a thing. A quick web search gets one hit from five years ago about putting pennies in the water bowl. I've been keeping reptiles for 30 years and have not encountered this claim before.

 

[Timc]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this isn't a thing. A quick web search gets one hit from five years ago about putting pennies in the water bowl. I've been keeping reptiles for 30 years and have not encountered this claim before.

Plus, tarantulas aren’t reptiles so even if it were…

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Plus, tarantulas aren’t reptiles so even if it were…

Yeah, there are so many aspects of reptile care that people try to drag into T care that just don't apply -- more room = better, gotta feed on a schedule, needs a heat mat. Though, like the copper thing, these shouldn't always be elements of reptile care either.

 

[HeartBum]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this isn't a thing. A quick web search gets one hit from five years ago about putting pennies in the water bowl. I've been keeping reptiles for 30 years and have not encountered this claim before.

I've seen it on a thumbnail from a YouTuber (Snake Discovery), probably the only place though.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I've seen it on a thumbnail from a YouTuber (Snake Discovery), probably the only place though.

Huh. I've met Emily, and heard good things about her YouTube stuff. Everyone believes at least one bonkers thing, I guess.

 

[boina]

Copper is not even safe for reptiles (or mammals). The moment you overdose just a little bit you have a very sick, or even dead, pet. Furthermore, it has a bitter taste even at low concentrations and may keep your pet from drinking. According to the WHO: "At levels above 2.5 mg/litre, copper imparts an undesirable bitter taste to water" - and that's for humans. Who knows what reptiles can taste. At higher concentrations it starts to become toxic - and 2.5 mg is very, very little, just a few grains of copper salt. Copper is a heavy metal and causes heavy metal poisoning with the usual symptoms. I've never heard about putting copper in drinking water and think it's a really, really bad idea, for any animal. For invertebrates it's even worse, as @DaveM already described. (Btw., the WHO puts a limit of 2 mg/litre on copper in drinking water before it is considered unsafe for human consumption.)

 

[DaveM]

Copper is not even safe for reptiles (or mammals). The moment you overdose just a little bit you have a very sick, or even dead, pet. Furthermore, it has a bitter taste even at low concentrations and may keep your pet from drinking. According to the WHO: "At levels above 2.5 mg/litre, copper imparts an undesirable bitter taste to water" - and that's for humans. Who knows what reptiles can taste. At higher concentrations it starts to become toxic - and 2.5 mg is very, very little, just a few grains of copper salt. Copper is a heavy metal and causes heavy metal poisoning with the usual symptoms. I've never heard about putting copper in drinking water and think it's a really, really bad idea, for any animal. For invertebrates it's even worse, as @DaveM already described. (Btw., the WHO puts a limit of 2 mg/litre on copper in drinking water before it is considered unsafe for human consumption.)

Thanks for adding that. Very true. I wouldn't want anyone to think that too much copper is good for us either. I remember a very long time ago having [over]protective parents confiscate parts of my little children's "Learn Chemistry" kit. One of the reagents confiscated was cupric sulfate. I was upset, because it's such a pretty blue color.

A lot of public water supplies have some small amount of cupric sulfate -- it's in trace amounts all over the place, and too much of it in some places -- but you aren't likely to get anywhere near drinking enough to reach toxic levels with tested and approved municipal water supplies. @boina is completely right, and copper is a heavy metal. However, unlike some other heavy metals (e.g. lead, mercury, gold), we do need small amounts of copper for our health (it is essential for many of our tissues, and for the function of critical enzymes like cytochrome C oxidase and one of the superoxide dismutases). We would die without some copper intake, and we are good at excreting copper also. The recommended daily intake is 900 micrograms, but above 10 milligrams (or 10,000 micrograms) per day can be harmful; annoying that the good range is so narrow, let's all complain to Mother Nature. So be wary, but don't be frightened.
Thanks, @boina

 

[Malum Argenteum]

(Btw., the WHO puts a limit of 2 mg/litre on copper in drinking water before it is considered unsafe for human consumption.)

IIRC, the limit in the US is 1ppm, which is above the toxic dose for most aquatic invertebrates.