Concerning lesions with Scarlet the Tarantula

[JoeCapricorn]

A bit of backstory, Scarlet is a Mexican Red Rump tarantula that lives at Hershey Gardens and has been living there for seven years at least. Around 2022 she had symptoms resembling DKS, and she successfully molted around November of 2022. I was not around at the time to see this in person, but a video was recorded (which I don't have available at the moment but I could try and ask for it on Monday). I was hired in the summer of 2023, and she was still on the treatment regimen that they implemented for the apparent DKS. This was to have her under a red light during opening hours, then swapped with Rosie (our Chilean Rose darling) to be in the humid Chrysalis Cabinet at night. Autumn of 2023 she molted again, it went perfectly. The shed exuvia pinned in a display case is an excellent talking point for guests. She also clearly was strong again, so we no longer did the rotation and Rosie was thankful for the less vibrations.

She molted again and this time I recorded my very first tarantula molt timelapse! I posted the video to Entomemeology (

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=599884539670653

- it should be public)
Someone pointed out a lesion on her epigastric furrow. I'll post a picture of that below.

Then when I noticed her spood splooting I took a photo of her, and noticed that the separation between her abdomen and cephalothorax looked a bit odd. Neither lesion seems to be oozing hemolymph though. And today (or rather Friday since now it's 1:43am Saturday here), it was her first feeding attempt but she did not seem interested. I'm not worried about that though, I often see that with tarantulas that have long molting cycles, they need about three weeks to get their appetite back and sometimes longer and then they are utter chompmonsters!

Perhaps this is me being her designated hypochondriac, but what could these lesions be, and is there any treatment? Are they possibly age related? I've heard of using corn starch if there was oozing hemolymph. Veterinary care could also be a possibility as we take our animals to the same vet that ZooAmerica uses.

I should also note that she is display only. Scarlet is shy, so handling is kept at an absolute minimum. Before her molt the only time I held her was when I weighed her and the other tarantulas (she was 32 grams) back around November. The only tarantula that gets taken out for guests is Rosie and we have a protocol with her for her safety (Rosie doesn't get handled by guests, but she does high five them with one of her paws)

At some point I'll have to handle Scarlet again, when I do maintenance on her enclosure. She'll be weighed and I'll check underneath to see what the lesion looks like, and if the one up top got worse. I am also doing some reading about what that top one might be and it looks like the pedicle, so it might not be anything to worry about regardless. Still, the epigastric lesion is a concern as well. I adore this spider.

 

[Olan]

The top one just looks like the pedicle. Sometimes it can be more visible after a molt.
The bottom one does look like some defect. But it is not oozing and is not too big. It will most likely go away with a few molts. Nothing to be done about that. I have a large female P. arboricola that had a much bigger one than that. She’s molted successfully several times since, and it gets a bit smaller each time.

 

[darkness975]

A bit of backstory, Scarlet is a Mexican Red Rump tarantula that lives at Hershey Gardens and has been living there for seven years at least. Around 2022 she had symptoms resembling DKS, and she successfully molted around November of 2022. I was not around at the time to see this in person, but a video was recorded (which I don't have available at the moment but I could try and ask for it on Monday). I was hired in the summer of 2023, and she was still on the treatment regimen that they implemented for the apparent DKS. This was to have her under a red light during opening hours, then swapped with Rosie (our Chilean Rose darling) to be in the humid Chrysalis Cabinet at night. Autumn of 2023 she molted again, it went perfectly. The shed exuvia pinned in a display case is an excellent talking point for guests. She also clearly was strong again, so we no longer did the rotation and Rosie was thankful for the less vibrations.

She molted again and this time I recorded my very first tarantula molt timelapse! I posted the video to Entomemeology (

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=599884539670653

- it should be public)
Someone pointed out a lesion on her epigastric furrow. I'll post a picture of that below.

Then when I noticed her spood splooting I took a photo of her, and noticed that the separation between her abdomen and cephalothorax looked a bit odd. Neither lesion seems to be oozing hemolymph though. And today (or rather Friday since now it's 1:43am Saturday here), it was her first feeding attempt but she did not seem interested. I'm not worried about that though, I often see that with tarantulas that have long molting cycles, they need about three weeks to get their appetite back and sometimes longer and then they are utter chompmonsters!

Perhaps this is me being her designated hypochondriac, but what could these lesions be, and is there any treatment? Are they possibly age related? I've heard of using corn starch if there was oozing hemolymph. Veterinary care could also be a possibility as we take our animals to the same vet that ZooAmerica uses.

I should also note that she is display only. Scarlet is shy, so handling is kept at an absolute minimum. Before her molt the only time I held her was when I weighed her and the other tarantulas (she was 32 grams) back around November. The only tarantula that gets taken out for guests is Rosie and we have a protocol with her for her safety (Rosie doesn't get handled by guests, but she does high five them with one of her paws)

At some point I'll have to handle Scarlet again, when I do maintenance on her enclosure. She'll be weighed and I'll check underneath to see what the lesion looks like, and if the one up top got worse. I am also doing some reading about what that top one might be and it looks like the pedicle, so it might not be anything to worry about regardless. Still, the epigastric lesion is a concern as well. I adore this spider.

All you can do is wait on that. No "treatments" to be had.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

A bit of backstory, Scarlet is a Mexican Red Rump tarantula that lives at Hershey Gardens and has been living there for seven years at least. Around 2022 she had symptoms resembling DKS, and she successfully molted around November of 2022. I was not around at the time to see this in person, but a video was recorded (which I don't have available at the moment but I could try and ask for it on Monday). I was hired in the summer of 2023, and she was still on the treatment regimen that they implemented for the apparent DKS. This was to have her under a red light during opening hours, then swapped with Rosie (our Chilean Rose darling) to be in the humid Chrysalis Cabinet at night. Autumn of 2023 she molted again, it went perfectly. The shed exuvia pinned in a display case is an excellent talking point for guests. She also clearly was strong again, so we no longer did the rotation and Rosie was thankful for the less vibrations.

She molted again and this time I recorded my very first tarantula molt timelapse! I posted the video to Entomemeology (

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=599884539670653

- it should be public)
Someone pointed out a lesion on her epigastric furrow. I'll post a picture of that below.

Then when I noticed her spood splooting I took a photo of her, and noticed that the separation between her abdomen and cephalothorax looked a bit odd. Neither lesion seems to be oozing hemolymph though. And today (or rather Friday since now it's 1:43am Saturday here), it was her first feeding attempt but she did not seem interested. I'm not worried about that though, I often see that with tarantulas that have long molting cycles, they need about three weeks to get their appetite back and sometimes longer and then they are utter chompmonsters!

Perhaps this is me being her designated hypochondriac, but what could these lesions be, and is there any treatment? Are they possibly age related? I've heard of using corn starch if there was oozing hemolymph. Veterinary care could also be a possibility as we take our animals to the same vet that ZooAmerica uses.

I should also note that she is display only. Scarlet is shy, so handling is kept at an absolute minimum. Before her molt the only time I held her was when I weighed her and the other tarantulas (she was 32 grams) back around November. The only tarantula that gets taken out for guests is Rosie and we have a protocol with her for her safety (Rosie doesn't get handled by guests, but she does high five them with one of her paws)

At some point I'll have to handle Scarlet again, when I do maintenance on her enclosure. She'll be weighed and I'll check underneath to see what the lesion looks like, and if the one up top got worse. I am also doing some reading about what that top one might be and it looks like the pedicle, so it might not be anything to worry about regardless. Still, the epigastric lesion is a concern as well. I adore this spider.

Why is there stones and no water in the water dish? Always have water in a water dish, and get rid of those stones. What's the whole setup like? I've stopped going into places like this purely because they have no clue what they are doing and will not listen to anything you have to say because they are the supposed professionals.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Why is there stones and no water in the water dish? Always have water in a water dish, and get rid of those stones. What's the whole setup like? I've stopped going into places like this purely because they have no clue what they are doing and will not listen to anything you have to say because they are the supposed professionals.

So the water dish setup is two petri dishes nested in each other. The outer ring has a moat of stones in order to prevent spillover. The inner dish only contains the water. This is to keep the substrate from getting wet, both for the comfort of the tarantulas and to prevent mold from building up. That can easily do so in a humid environment such as the Butterfly Atrium.

Each of the tarantulas we have are in cubic Exo-terra terrariums with at least 3 inches of substrate, with the back being a bit more full than the front and the hide facing toward the side. When we have them out on display they sit in tight fitting trays bolted to the railing of the Zoology zone. Scarlet's enclosure is actually just about due for a refresh, but I am going to wait a considerable amount of time before doing so because she needs the rest!

 

[Andrew Clayton]

So the water dish setup is two petri dishes nested in each other. The outer ring has a moat of stones in order to prevent spillover. The inner dish only contains the water. This is to keep the substrate from getting wet, both for the comfort of the tarantulas and to prevent mold from building up. That can easily do so in a humid environment such as the Butterfly Atrium.

Each of the tarantulas we have are in cubic Exo-terra terrariums with at least 3 inches of substrate, with the back being a bit more full than the front and the hide facing toward the side. When we have them out on display they sit in tight fitting trays bolted to the railing of the Zoology zone. Scarlet's enclosure is actually just about due for a refresh, but I am going to wait a considerable amount of time before doing so because she needs the rest!

I'd just use the bigger dish and remove the stones, in a setup that dry a little bit of spillage is not going to affect it.
3 inches of substrate in what exoterra size? I'd try and minimise that size in there it looks pretty tall from surface of the substrate to ceiling, it may just be how I'm seeing it though.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

I think they are 12x12x12, while our pink toe is in a 12x12x18

 

[TheraMygale]

I'd just use the bigger dish and remove the stones, in a setup that dry a little bit of spillage is not going to affect it.
3 inches of substrate in what exoterra size? I'd try and minimise that size in there it looks pretty tall from surface of the substrate to ceiling, it may just be how I'm seeing it though.

they probably have protocols. Since its some kind of butterfly/insectarium. So they cant just change things unless its approved by the Lead Technician.

it doesnt mean your ideas are bad.

i have friends who work at a botanical garden and their procedures are approved by entomologists. It might look wrong to us. They have their ways of doing things.

For OP, tarantula might have an abcess near book lung. Or some kind of wound. Ive watched my tarantulas molt, book lungs dont look like this when its fresh molted. It looks like book lung to me in video, but it could be something else. My eyes are telling me book lung, but its perspective. Its as though its some kind of tumor that goes from pedicel all the way under near book lung.

unfortunately, DKS is a group of symptoms. Causes have been theorized. But nothing have been conclusif yet. Nothing that leads to a: this did that, this is what solves it.

on the board its been discussed so much, with few solutions that work. Heat might have aided in some situations. But its not like tarantulas were analyzed, and results given, to determine why this happened.

my guess is its surrounded by plants that are exposed to certain chemicals. Even if “bio”, like pyrethrine, it can affect a tarantula.

enclosures arent fully sealed, any “pests” in the air can get into enclosure.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

I can tell you for certainty that the lesion is directly on the epigastric furrow, not the booklung.

 

[cold blood]

It honestly looks like the epigastic furrow is prolapsed.

Unless breeding is in the future, I wouldn't expect it to cause the t and real issues.....but it wouldn't matter, as there's nothing one would be able to do about it aside from waiting for the next molt and hope that a molt remedies the issue.

If the exoterra is what it sounds like, taller with front opening doors, I would recommend a change, as this is an arboreal enclosure....it can be modified by setting it on its back, damming part of the ventilated top to hold in substrate and using the door on the top.....this would be the only way to use such an enclosure in a manner that would allow for enough substrate to be added to create a safe environment for a terrestrial tarantula.

Best of luck.

 

[Gevo]

Each of the tarantulas we have are in cubic Exo-terra terrariums with at least 3 inches of substrate, with the back being a bit more full than the front and the hide facing toward the side.

I think they are 12x12x12, while our pink toe is in a 12x12x18

The ExoTerras with front-opening doors are more challenging to use with terrestrials, though many keepers on here do make them work. The normal advice for these tarantulas is to have no more than 1.5 times the tarantula's diagonal legspan in distance from the top of the substrate to the ceiling of the enclosure, so the appropriate depth of substrate for Scarlet depends on how big she is. For example, if she's 4 inches in diagonal legspan, then the recommended depth of substrate in a 12-inch cube would be 6 inches, and if she's 5 inches in DLS, you'd want 4.5 inches of substrate. This helps to prevent injury if they fall while climbing (and many do climb when we're not looking, even if they seem like they never do!).

When, exactly, did she molt? (Beautiful timelapse video, by the way!) You're right that it can take a while for them to want to eat again, and feeding them before their fangs are fully hardened up and black from tip to chelicerae can actually be dangerous because they can damage a fang trying to attack their prey, or their prey can injure them because the rest of their exoskeleton is still hardening up too. If she took about 3 weeks to start eating again last time, I'd expect it to take at least that long and maybe a bit longer this time since it takes them more time to harden up the bigger they get. Given her reaction to being offered food this past weekend, I'm wondering if it is that she's not yet ready to eat, not that it has anything to do with the lesion.

As for the lesion, all you can do is wait. If the molt is intact enough, inspect it carefully to see if there were any signs of an abrasion or a cyst developing that you just weren't able to see before. These things happen sometimes, and they often heal over the next molt or couple of molts. I would just keep an eye out for any leakage of hemolymph, and I've seen advice given here before to also be a little more conservative with feeding over the next molt cycle because it's easier for them to drag a larger abdomen and aggravate any abrasions or wounds on their underside if they're carrying more junk in the trunk.