Columbian Boa Question

[sassysmama]

A few weeks ago my boyfriend got me this little columbian boa, because it was odd looking and he knew I would like it. He works at a pet store and it was sent by the distributors as a normal boa. It has odd saddles, it appears almost hypo in some areas, but it is not a hypo. It also has neurological issues, almost like some of the spider ball pythons. Not sure quite how to explain it, but it moves jerkily and does not eat normally, though it does eat well and appears to be doing just fine, growing, etc. I am not really sure what to make of it, my boyfriend says he has seen it in pythons that were incubated at too high a temperature. Just wondering if anyone has seen this before. I have grown quite fond of the little guy, he is extremely docile, though I suspect that is a part of his neurological issues. Anyway, here are a few pictures.

 

[PatrickM]

Sounds like your little guy may have Inclusive Body Disease (IBD). Common signs include respiratory problems, staring at the ceiling for long periods of time, and neurological problems. I would really encourage you to take same time to research this and see how other snakes with this disease compare to yours. If he is eating, this is very good because Boids with IBD typically don't eat. IBD is 100% fatal so hopefully he doesn't have it.

 

[Spidershane1]

It appears to be a salmon form. Its kinda hard to tell in the pics, but there is definetly some pink going on on the sides & especially by the tail. My salmon has the same exact "X" shaped saddles too, as do all her siblings. Same colors as well. He's a beauty, congrats.
On a more serious note, definetly look into the IBD thing- it's no joke.

 

[myrmecophile]

Nice looking little guy, shame about the problems. I suspect this is one rather inbred little snake though as the eyes appear to be larger than they should be. This snake should never have made it to the store.

 

[pitbulllady]

Nice looking little guy, shame about the problems. I suspect this is one rather inbred little snake though as the eyes appear to be larger than they should be. This snake should never have made it to the store.

The eyes are normal-sized for a neonate Boa, as they tend to have large eyes and more "pug" noses.
I do second what has already been said about checking into IBD, though. It's highly contageous, and once in a place, is virtually impossible to erradicate. It's put many a breeder out of business. The neurological problems could be due to that, or hopefully, are a congenital problem due to inbreeding.

I have to ask the OP why you think this is not a Hypo. It has all the visual indicators of a Hypo, and there's nothing that says to me, as a Boa breeder, that it's not.

pitbulllady

 

[Spidershane1]

I have to ask the OP why you think this is not a Hypo. It has all the visual indicators of a Hypo, and there's nothing that says to me, as a Boa breeder, that it's not.

pitbulllady

Exactly. I'm still sticking to my earlier post, in the thinking that this is a salmon hypo. I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

What do you think pitbulllady?

 

[myrmecophile]

Interesting, I have bred wild caught stock in the past and do not recall ever seeing eyes this proportionately large.

 

[sassysmama]

Definitely not IBD. It is some type of defect, whether congenital or aquired. He was sent to the pet store very young, before having fed yet, and he was held at the store for a few weeks, but he has always eaten for them, he just does it oddly. My boyfriend originally quarantined him but after a few weeks with the snake doing fine, he brought it home. He has had no progression of symptoms. He does not star-gaze, he can right himself when flipped over, and he coils normally when at rest, if you saw him in his enclosure, when he is not moving around, you would never know. He acts just like a spider ball python, with the classic wobbling head and jerky movements. When he eats, he has a head wobble and he wiggles his tail. We have a 2 year old spider ball who does the same thing (we have had him for over a year). My boyfriend believes that he either has a genetic defect, or the mother was kept at too high temperatures, making the pattern aberrant and causing neurologic signs. Has anyone heard of or seen this before with too high temps?
As far as him being a hypo, he continues to get more and more black with every shed. Those pictures are a few weeks old, and already he has more black on his head and tail. Perhaps he is just not a nice hypo? I don't know, I guess I will be able to tell more as he matures.

 

[pitbulllady]

Definitely not IBD. It is some type of defect, whether congenital or aquired. He was sent to the pet store very young, before having fed yet, and he was held at the store for a few weeks, but he has always eaten for them, he just does it oddly. My boyfriend originally quarantined him but after a few weeks with the snake doing fine, he brought it home. He has had no progression of symptoms. He does not star-gaze, he can right himself when flipped over, and he coils normally when at rest, if you saw him in his enclosure, when he is not moving around, you would never know. He acts just like a spider ball python, with the classic wobbling head and jerky movements. When he eats, he has a head wobble and he wiggles his tail. We have a 2 year old spider ball who does the same thing (we have had him for over a year). My boyfriend believes that he either has a genetic defect, or the mother was kept at too high temperatures, making the pattern aberrant and causing neurologic signs. Has anyone heard of or seen this before with too high temps?
As far as him being a hypo, he continues to get more and more black with every shed. Those pictures are a few weeks old, and already he has more black on his head and tail. Perhaps he is just not a nice hypo? I don't know, I guess I will be able to tell more as he matures.

Hypos do usually darken as they mature, and most do wind up with more black on them than they had as neonates, to the disappointment of many a breeder. The value of a Hypo depends on the pattern and the amount of black it has showing; the less black, obviously, the more valuable that snake is, but nearly all Hypos do have some black on them, especially around the saddles on the rear of the body.

Exposure to high temps can and often does cause brain damage in snakes, and young snake or developing embryoes are especially vulnerable. That could be the cause of the baby's problems, or, as you've suggested, it could be congenital. I've personally never encountered that issue with morph Boas as it's common in certain strains of Ball Pythons, but just as with humans, things can go wrong for individual babies during development prior to birth so you get the odd invididual born with a neurological defect. Most of the time, in Boa babies, we see obvious physical defects associated with certain morphs or strains, like missing eyes or severe spinal kinks.

pitbulllady

 

[Alexandra V]

Definitely not IBD. It is some type of defect, whether congenital or aquired. He was sent to the pet store very young, before having fed yet, and he was held at the store for a few weeks, but he has always eaten for them, he just does it oddly. My boyfriend originally quarantined him but after a few weeks with the snake doing fine, he brought it home. He has had no progression of symptoms. He does not star-gaze, he can right himself when flipped over, and he coils normally when at rest, if you saw him in his enclosure, when he is not moving around, you would never know. He acts just like a spider ball python, with the classic wobbling head and jerky movements. When he eats, he has a head wobble and he wiggles his tail. We have a 2 year old spider ball who does the same thing (we have had him for over a year). My boyfriend believes that he either has a genetic defect, or the mother was kept at too high temperatures, making the pattern aberrant and causing neurologic signs. Has anyone heard of or seen this before with too high temps?

It could have been a temperature problem during development, in fact I've heard of that happening with boas at high temperatures too. Congrats on the new addition, by the way, but I would still QT it for a good long while. Just my $0.02, better safe than sorry.

 

[red fury]

congrats on the boa! beautiful snake i have a pastel 100% het sunglow myself... sorry to hear about the health probs, but i am thinking its a heat issue as well. hopefully he lasts a long time!