Cohabitation in Crotalus vitiris helleri

[DaleGribble]

I have 2 juvenile crotalus vitirus helleri, my first (and probably only) venture into venomous. My friend who gave them to me as wee little ones was not able to sex them. I keep them together and he said that as long as they aren't both male, they should be fine that way. What should I be on the lookout for, behavior wise, if indeed they are both males?

 

[Ravnos]

Talk about stepping into the fire, not what most people would consider a good choice for a first foray into venomous... I highly recommend writing yourself a protocol book with all the information on this species, and what the proper first aid and medical treatments are. Make sure this book is somewhere near the snake cages at all time, as well as all phone numbers you may need - including doctors, sources of antinvenin, and any venomous snake experts you know. I don't mean to preach, I have no idea your level of knowledge and skill, but that particular species is known for its neurotoxicity and it isn't something to take lightly. Anyway, I personally believe that cohabitation venomous snakes is a bad idea for a number of reasons.

Firstly, for the reasons of general herp keeping. If you have a health issue with one, you are almost guaranteed to have a health issue with the other. Except when breeding or brumating, most snakes are solitary animals that don't typically appreciate company that isn't edible. Of course there are exceptions to this, but in a captive situation where stress is already at a high level, adding more by the influence of a cage mate is probably not a great idea.

Second, for feeding. If you have two animals in the same enclosure, it means that much more handling to remove one during feeding time. Logic dictates that the more you need to deal directly with the animals, the greater your chances of something wrong happening. Feeding them together would just be an invitation for disaster.

Which comes to my third issue, removing the animals from the cage when needed. If you know theres only one animal in there, its much easier to just use the hook to flip the hide and hook it out. With an extra pair of eyes (and fangs) in the cage, you have something else to be worried about when you need to remove one animal. I know of more than one person that has been bitten by having their attention diverted by one animal and forgetting about the second one. Dealing with only one venomous snake at a time is much safer.

Fourth, male rattlesnakes are known to combat. Now, this generally doesn't happen unless there is a female somewhere nearby, and their hormones are raging, but still. Housing them together is probably not the best idea.

Not saying it can't be done and would never work, but in the long run its probably easier, safer, and less stressful on you and the snakes to keep them seperated.

Rav

 

[DaleGribble]

I appreciate the feedback. I have quite a bit of herp experience and was introduced to venomous by a friend who has years of experience with every type, especially cobras. He taught me the most important lesson (I think) in working with venomous- NEVER FORGET WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH. I treat them like they were taipans or mambas. These rattlers, being captive born & raised, are pretty docile and just hang on the hook. Still, I never lose my focus on both snakes and every move I make when moving them around. I keep a nasty picture of a bite above the enclosure just as a reminder.
At feeding time, I do separate the two. This is the only time they are disturbed, and it is important to practice dealing with them. The first time I fed them together one dropped its mouse and pulled the other one out of its cagemate's mouth! I always heard that rattlers were more social than the average snake and thats why I keep them together, so I may just keep them like this until they outgrow their current digs. At that time they will be sub-adults, and, as you said, it will be more difficult to move one with the other one still in the tank.
This species is native to my area, and antivenin is readily available, however, as I said earlier, I treat them as if they were deadly.
Once again, I appreciate the feedback. I always feel I have to differentiate myself from some jerk who keeps these things for all the wrong reasons. I decided to keep these because I feel it is another level of reptile keeping I am ready for, and for the fact that they are unique and possess many qualities not found in other snakes.

 

[Crotalus]

The antivenin CroFab isnt working 100% against helleri bites. People do die from bites of this species so if you dont know exactly what you dealing with I suggest you get rid of them.
As for keeping them together, no problem if you got two adult males as long there is no female closeby.
But since you had to ask such a novice question I strongly suggest you get rid of them.

/Lelle

 

[DaleGribble]

I trust my friend who gave them to me. I'm sure any big FL venomous keepers on this board would know him and his expertise. I know he would not have given them to me if he didn't know I could handle (not literally) them.
Plus, if you are supposed to worry about the potency of the venom, why would people keep any of the stuff they do that they know has a VERY good chance of killing them if they were bitten?