CITES paperwork

[Casey K]

I have a question. I have been doing a little research on importing and exporting (although I mainly care of importing only) and obtaining a license to do so. My question is about "CITES". Am I suppose to acquire this also through USFW along with my import license (to be able to obtain Brachypelma sp. Etc.) or is the exporter supposed to provide them upon shipping to me? I suppose no question is a dumb question as long as it has to do with anything legal. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[MrDeranged]

I've never imported CITES species before, but maybe some of these links will help?

• https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.php
  
• https://www.cites.org/eng/resources/faq.php
  
• http://www.fws.gov/permits/importexport/importexport.html

 

[Casey K]

I've never imported CITES species before, but maybe some of these links will help?

• https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.php
  
• https://www.cites.org/eng/resources/faq.php
  
• http://www.fws.gov/permits/importexport/importexport.html

Thank you very much!

 

[Steve123]

Hey Casey.

I'm happy to comment. As you and I have discussed, I've imported tarantulas and other spiders, legally, many times from both Canada and Europe. CITES paperwork is largely the responsibility of the exporter. Interestingly, the difficulty in obtaining CITES paperwork is different depending on the country from which you import, in this case, Canada versus Europe. The two people from Canada from which you might be importing would simply require some information about you (name, address, etc.), to be filed by the exporter. A very small filing fee is required and there is a wait-time of about 2 weeks.

The CITES format is international, so the required information is the same for any country. However, in general, the Europeans seem to take CITES documentation much more seriously than the Canadians, so much so that I'd say it is rather impossible (unless you have a really, really good friend) to get an exporter to send you Brachypelma from the EU, legally. Thus, the German, Michael Scheller, one of the biggest suppliers of tarantulas to the US these days, writes in his FAQ section [LINK] (Google translate):

"Do you sell protected tarantula species (Brachypelma spp.) to countrys outside the European Union (EU)?
No, thats not possible and illegal. Its no problem to sell protected inverts inside the EU with a breeder certification. By exports to destinations outside the EU are CITES papers needfull, that needs long time, much paperwork and fees, so please respect that i do sell Brachypelma species only inside the European Union."

Well, it's not illegal, but you get the idea. It's just too much trouble. Proof of captive breeding, establishing parentage, and I think a site visit, cause headaches for them. You'll get this answer over and over from various vendors.

The above may raise more questions for some readers than it answers, but that's the short of it.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Hey Casey.

I'm happy to comment. As you and I have discussed, I've imported tarantulas and other spiders, legally, many times from both Canada and Europe. CITES paperwork is largely the responsibility of the exporter. Interestingly, the difficulty in obtaining CITES paperwork is different depending on the country from which you import, in this case, Canada versus Europe. The two people from Canada from which you might be importing would simply require some information about you (name, address, etc.), to be filed by the exporter. A very small filing fee is required and there is a wait-time of about 2 weeks.

The CITES format is international, so the required information is the same for any country. However, in general, the Europeans seem to take CITES documentation much more seriously than the Canadians, so much so that I'd say it is rather impossible (unless you have a really, really good friend) to get an exporter to send you Brachypelma from the EU, legally. Thus, the German, Michael Scheller, one of the biggest suppliers of tarantulas to the US these days, writes in his FAQ section [LINK] (Google translate):

"Do you sell protected tarantula species (Brachypelma spp.) to countrys outside the European Union (EU)?
No, thats not possible and illegal. Its no problem to sell protected inverts inside the EU with a breeder certification. By exports to destinations outside the EU are CITES papers needfull, that needs long time, much paperwork and fees, so please respect that i do sell Brachypelma species only inside the European Union."

Well, it's not illegal, but you get the idea. It's just too much trouble. Proof of captive breeding, establishing parentage, and I think a site visit, cause headaches for them. You'll get this answer over and over from various vendors.

The above may raise more questions for some readers than it answers, but that's the short of it.

Pure gospel. Here in Italy, where there's since 2003 (thanks to Silvio Berlu$coni government, but supported in that by every of those) an Arachnid (all Arachnids) ban still on, you can buy and trade T's (and Scorpions) only in authorized fairs/expo.

If here, you have a CITES protected one (in this case, T's case, genus Brachypelma) without the paper/papers that proves that "yours" is a CB specimen (if they "spot" you, of course) is night time. Serious "you know what"

So Italian breeders, if they want to breed and sell genus Brachypelma T's, should contact their region CITES department (with the Italian wildlife corp) and put that to their attention.

They verify and sign in a official way the process (slings, how many, date/day, name/surname/address etc etc lots of etc) then, only then, they can sell those, but only in (and where there's, because not always) authorized T's fairs, and the customer RECEIVE a copy of those papers.

 

[Steve123]

Very interesting @Chris LXXIX. It seems bringing CITES species from one EU country to another is simpler than bringing them from the EU to the US. I'm not in a position to opine on the information pertaining to Italy, but your outline sounds valid. The OP is asking for information regarding the legal US import of Brachypelma, specifically Canada to US, or EU to US, and my first paragraph regarding that topic is valid as of the end of last year, when I last imported and last inquired about the US import of Brachypelma from exporters in Canada and the EU.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Very interesting @Chris LXXIX. It seems bringing CITES species from one EU country to another is simpler than bringing them from the EU to the US. I'm not in a position to opine on the information pertaining to Italy, but your outline sounds valid. The OP is asking for information regarding the legal US import of Brachypelma, specifically Canada to US, or EU to US, and my first paragraph regarding that topic is valid as of the end of last year, when I last imported and last inquired about the US import of Brachypelma from exporters in Canada and the EU.

Of course. Mine was only for let you know about some curiosity involving the situation here in Italy when it comes to CITES protected animals (CITES animals in general, not only Brachypelma). I don't know now how that CITES thing is exactly regulated in other EU nations (i know that some UK, England mostly, seller, for instance, send the papers as well within the "Brachy", but too bad that ordering T's online here in Italy is illegal, lol) i mean, if those are severe like here.
Really here would be better to be "caught", let's say, with 500+ T's, rather than have one (1) "Brachy" without that CB paper

 

[Philth]

I would contact your Fish & Wildlife office and find out exactly what they will require. I find sometimes you get a different answer about things, depending on who you speak to at their offices.

Later, Tom