cham owners help please!

[da_illest]

ok... so i got a 3 inch veiled chameleon at the reptile expo believing what some dumbass told me! he made it seem sooooooo simple. now we've read up on it and it's some serious care these suckers need... it's really nice and i like it but am not prepared as he sold me a plastic tub saying the cham could live in it which is bull...

anyways i got everything covered except for the handling part.. should i handle it? or should i not? i want it to be tame as possible but i don't want to kill it...

 

[skinheaddave]

In general, chameleons do not deal well with handling at all. I have seen exceptions where individual chameleons have become very tame -- but usually the people that fool themselves into thinking their cham is tame run into trouble come sexual maturity or end up with dead chams.

On a side note, this is a good example of why you should know your stuff before going to a show and resist those impulse buys.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Valael]

I handled mine once just to get it out of the cage so I could clean it. It never ate again. I wouldn't really suggest it with Chameleons. They're capable of taming down, but they stress out a whole lot easier.



Chameleons are more of a hands off display animal.

 

[BigSam]

there cool to look at thou. even thou you can't handle them.

Sam,

 

[Phillip]

While a veiled typically takes handling better than most species as has already been said it can be a big source of stress.

I also have to echo the comment about being prepared before getting an animal.

That being said as far as chams go they are amongst the easiest but they are still high maintenance compared to most herps.

Phil

 

[da_illest]

so how would i take it out for cage maintanence? especially when it's bigger?

 

[da_illest]

Originally posted by Phillip
I also have to echo the comment about being prepared before getting an animal.

Phil

yea i know.... but my girl thought it was really cute and i figured that since the damn guy selling it to me was selling ONLY cham's he'd know so we raided him with questions.. he didn't even tell me they needed a uva/uvb flouresent bulb! he said it only needed a heat lamp and 2 mistings per day.. he even lied and told me to keep it in a big rubbermaid type tub he gave me that's the equivelent of less then a 10 gallon tank, when really the need mostly screened enclosures or else they can get respiratory infections as well as stress due to their reflection on the plastic..

and i believed him thinking he would at least try to keep his good name and not lie!

now i know and spent 200 dollars on a floresent fixture with lamp, heat clamp fixture with a bulb bought seperatly, dust for crickets, repti-vine by flukers, etc.... all i need is a screen enclosure now...

 

[skinheaddave]

Well, the majority of cage maintenance can be done while it is still in the enclosure. For those times when you just have to scrub down the whole thing, it is probably best to remove the bit of furniture it is on and then go at it.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Valael]

Those nylon? repitariums (Those cloth things) work well for Chameleons.

 

[da_illest]

Valael: continuing

there was no mercy on these streets, i couldn't rest!
i'm barely standin' bout to go to pieces screaming PEACE!
and though my soul was deleted, i couldn't see it
I had my mind full of deamons tryin' ta break free
they planted seeds and they hatched sparking tha flame
in my brain like a match, such a dirty game
no memories, just misery
painting a picture of my enemies killing me in my sleep
will I survive till' tha morning ta see tha sun
please lord forgive me for my sins
cause here I come!

that's a BIG tune man! i love that track, i love most his tracks... i know every damn word to 90% of his songs.. so you like so many tears? do you wanna hear a version that's 1000000 times better?? let me know..

and i wanna build my own cage... until then i plan on doing with what i got... those plastic reptariums are expensive!

 

[Kayv]

me and my mom have kept a veiled for nearly 7 years before it died. that is VERY good and rare for one to live that old.

the way we kept our veiled was a screen cage with a lot of branched and fake leaves. he lived there from baby to juvi and once mature he lived on 2 trees in our house. when he lived in the trees we would feed him by placing the crickets in a food dish on the windowsill. the trees were right next to the window so he could soak up sunlight. if the sun wasnt at that window but on the other one across the living room, he would walk over to that tree. our chameleon took his final breath on my moms hands and my mom was VERY sad. i got my mom some pygmies to make up for it but i know she will always miss our first one. when my mom would go out in the garden sometimes she would take him so he could go outside on the trees and soak up some sun.

dont touch the chameleon. it stresses them out and the oils on our skin is not good for them because they have sensitive skin.
chameleons are extremely difficult to take care of and the only advice i could give you is just read a lot about them and get as much info as possible. good luck man

 

[burnpile]

For winter quarters, go to Lowes, Home Depot , <fill in favorite home improvment center here> and buy one of these http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=43008-000000986-904W and some vinyl screen. Cut the center out of the middle shelf, sand the edges so they arent sharp. Hot glue the screen to all but one side, use Velcro for the remaining side so you can open it. put a cat litter pan full of gravel on the bottom, and fill it half full of water. This will act as a counterbalance and a humidity sump. (not that Veilds need alot of humidity.) Fill it with some silk and live plants, attach a clamp fixture with a 75 watt bulb to the top, and angle it so it 'splays' across the top tier of foilage. Make a hole in the top of the shelf unit, and in the bottom of a clean 1 qt. container. Fill the container with water, set it on the roof so that the 2 holes line up and let the water drip down the foilage into the sump on the bottom. The cham will drink the trickle. Keep the room temp above 70 degrees and place perches under the clamp that have varying temps up to 105 degrees (this is fahrenheit) . I've kept a trio of adults in this setup, so you can scale it down for a single specimen if you like. Make sure to have a live hibiscus in there. They are cheap, pretty and the Veilds will eat a bit of the vegetable matter on them. No ficus or philodendrhon as they are a bit toxic when eaten. Most chameleon sp. are strict carnivores, but Veilds do eat a bit of veggies. Feed crickets and mealworms in a cup or from your fingers to keep them from running free in the enclosure.

I never use uva/b lamps with any of my chams, but they also live outside in the summer. IMO they don't need it.

As for handling, some hate it, some don't, and some seem to want to come out every time the door is open. If it want's to explore, let it. If not, don't force it. Whatever you do don't grab it, let it walk onto your hand. Large mammals (dog and cat large, not elephant large ), snakes and birds will all scare the daylights out of a cham, so watch the kitty if you have one.

 

[da_illest]

i keep him in my animal room with my snake, 15 t's, frog, fish, and hamster! that's bad then huh/?

also that link you gave me doesn't work.. i really wanna see what it is

 

[burnpile]

try this link
http://www.aubuchonhardware.com/brands/plano-shelf_units.asp
It's a 3 or 4 tier plastic shelf. Probably something similar at WalMart , I just happen to live real close to Lowes

Just place him/her where it can't see the snake....these animals have great eyesight and show alot of response when they see a predator, but I don't think they can smell or otherwise 'sense' animals they can't see.

I know this wasn't the best way to get into Cham keeping, but they really are great, and as luck would have it you have the easiest species to keep and breed.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

What about that enclosure that you posted on the T forum for the communal avic set-up? Did you get your hands on it? That would be perfect for your new veiled, and thank god you got the hardiest species. My first one lived a little over a year, and died from stress cause I moved 3 times in 4 months.
Place it in the lowest traffic area in the house, and please make sure it can't see the snake.
As for the UVB issue, if they get exposure to summer sunlight all the time they more than likely don't need it, but I don't recommend moving them unless needed, just to cut back on the stress factor. So I would keep it in one place and use UVB and a calcium/vitaman supplement like fluker's farm on the crickets.
Stress kills with these creatures (which happen to be my passion/obsession). Don't touch it, don't move it, just feast your eyes on it. Mine got used to me sitting *below* the cage watching her. I think they get more nervous when you view them from above, just my observation.


God I love those critters, and I did my homework for two years, then built a cage, then went to the pet store and asked them to get me the biggest, meanest mother-humper they had. =D Which was approx. 2.5 inches.

Don't use any substrate at all, and besides the vines get some potted pothos plants in the bottom of the cage. They not only help humidity but are safe for the cham to eat, and you might notice a chunk taken out of the foliage from time to time.
A 90 degree F basking spot with constant access to cooler temps, and I would set it up on a timer. These buggers like a routine. A morning and evening mist should do, but if you want it wouldn't hurt to set up a drip system instead, I think this is less stressful on delicate aboreals than misting. But misting provides good humidity, and if you have an all or mostly screen enclosure and no substrate mold or mites shouldn't occur. You don't even need to bother with a water dish.

I was also a nut and pulled the jumping legs off of thousands of innocent crickets so I could use the feeding cup method. Every morning Zelda was waiting for me to turn on the sun and dump a few crickets in her bowl, which I did after I made sure she had her morning drink.

One more thing, NO cigarette/(nameyourpoison) smoke AT ALL.
Smoke kills them just as quickly as stress does.
Check out CCIC (Chameleon Care and Information Center) and you'll find a wealth of knowldge about different species and very detailed care sheets. If ya really want to pick my brain you can PM me, but these are the basics.
Good luck, and post a pic!

EDIT: Provide a vast amount of different sized vines and get some fake ivy to wrap around most of them. Chams hide by pretty much pretending to be a leaf at all times, and you'll have fun trying to play hide and seek for at least ten minutes everyday.
But they ALWAYS see you.


And really, no handling. At all. In my excitement I handled my little veiled, and I never did it again as she displayed severe stress colors for a couple of days afterward.
If you want to 'tame' it, handing feeding is about the most I would attempt, and only after it gets used to your presence and rountine cage maintenence. Plus let her get a little size on her first.
You will get used to her 'moods' and will be able to tell when she is calm and when she is stressed. Chams communicate very well for being just lizards.

 

[OldHag]

I have an empty screen cage...send him to me

 

[da_illest]

yea i'm getting this cage now and this will be his third move.. i plan on getting some plants and stuff but i'm thinking won't the wood rot with a drip system?

thanx for the info btw!

 

[thechicagoloop]

other suggestions...

For the bottom of the enclosure, use astrotruf of reptile cage carpeting. Get at least 2 sheets, so you can replace the dirty one and clean it out of the enclosure.

UVB is essential YEAR ROUND. Period. There is absolutely no reason NOT to have a good UVB source. The Zoomed Reptisun 5.0 and Iguanalight 5.0 are noted to be good sources, but change the bulb every 6 months. And exposure to natural sunlight at some point during the day would be ideal if at all possible.

If you have a vet that sees reptiles, it would be a good idea to have the stool checked for parastites. Most reptiles from pet stores and swaps seem to have some form of parasites. Pinworms are most common, and only seem to affect appetite, but strongyloides, if present, can be fatal to herps.

And although it is correct that reducing handling is critical, a healthy herp should be able to handle a small amount without serious problems. It's the ones who have some underlying condition that get pushed over the edge. I also have never heard of the oils from human's hands harming a reptile. I think that is only for amphibians.

Finally, the need for humidity and temperature are indeed critical. The range inside the cage for veils should be from 75 to 95 F (105 seems a tad warm for this species). Drop temps 5-10 degrees at night.You will only know if you have reached these temperatures if you have good thermometers!

Gut-load all crickets with fluker's gel (and a little sweet potato) and calcium dust all insects, but try to find dust supplements without vitamin A, as this vitamin can be overdosed.

Research, research, research, but take everything you read with a grain of salt. Anything written by Rob Coke, DVM would be worthwhile, if you could find one.

Hope this helps you and all future first time chameleon owners.

Dr. John

 

[da_illest]

thanx a lot man! you seem to know your chams..

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Agreed, that is good advice.... The CCIC , (Chameleon Care and Information Center) is no longer available.... Bummer.

As for Astroturf, I didn't need it, I just spot cleaned feces and waste daily with no substrate at all.

But I do agree that a high quality UVB bulb is essential, and I replaced mine every six months as well.

And EVERTHING that goes into your crix goes to the chameleon, so gut-loading as well as dusting every now and then helps. I used Flukers Farm brand cricket shake and bake =D =D
to supplement............