Centipede Intelligence II

[Staehilomyces]

Last year, we had a discussion on centipede intelligence. All the input we had suggested that they were quite intelligent by invert standards. Now, we have many new members, and most likely all of us have had more experiences within the time that elapsed between the last thread and now. I thought I'd start up a second discussion on centipede intelligence, to discuss anything we may have observed, and see if anyone has new input for the discussion. One thing I also just found out though is that centipedes apparently have a very scattered nervous system. Does this in any way equate to lower intelligence?

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Last year, we had a discussion on centipede intelligence. All the input we had suggested that they were quite intelligent by invert standards. Now, we have many new members, and most likely all of us have had more experiences within the time that elapsed between the last thread and now. I thought I'd start up a second discussion on centipede intelligence, to discuss anything we may have observed, and see if anyone has new input for the discussion. One thing I also just found out though is that centipedes apparently have a very scattered nervous system. Does this in any way equate to lower intelligence?

I don't think a scattered nervous system means they're not intelligent. As for if they are intelligent or not mine seem to remember where they leave roaches as opposed to having to search for them again

 

[Chris LXXIX]

For me Centipedes are like the Octopus of inverts, they are extremely intelligents, and calculators (unlike T's that rely more on pure instinct, like baboon's hissing even for almost nothing).

I view this when working with my S.subspinipes, she calculate everything before acting.

 

[Staehilomyces]

May I just ask how you tell they "calculate"? I'm all for intelligence in centipedes, but I would like to know how you can tell that's what's happening.

 

[BobBarley]

We can't really measure something that doesn't have a real definition. "Intelligence" is subjective and the exact meaning of it will differ from person to person.


However, if you measure intelligence in the ability to become tolerant to a stimulus, especially with food involved, I'd say centipedes are fairly "intelligent". Then again, I can't make a generalized statement like that because of the sheer amount of diversity in centipedes. I'd say at least many of the large species are fairly "intelligent" using this definition.

If you say intelligence is the capacity to experience emotions the way us humans experience emotions, I'd say centipedes cannot.

I wouldn't say a scattered nervous system lends to decreased intelligence. Just take a look at Cephalopods! They have no actual brain, only a collections of nerves called ganglia (I'm not well-versed on internal pede anatomy so I could be wrong here, but I believe centipedes have something similar). However, they are extremely "intelligent" (able to solve complex puzzles to get food). Am I saying centipedes can do this sort of thing? No, I'm not, I'm just saying a scattered nervous system doesn't indicate less "intelligence" (however you want to define it).

 

[kermitdsk]

I don't think a scattered nervous system means they're not intelligent. As for if they are intelligent or not mine seem to remember where they leave roaches as opposed to having to search for them again

They not remember they are smelling with their antenna. That's why they find their prey... smelling like a dog.

In my opinion I wouldn't talk about intelligence. They are more like an old coputer programm, evolutionary hehavior. They do for what they were programmed.

 

[Staehilomyces]

I certainly would not regard them as biological robots. The bat hunting behaviour HAS to demonstrate some sort of memory.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

They not remember they are smelling with their antenna. That's why they find their prey... smelling like a dog.

In my opinion I wouldn't talk about intelligence. They are more like an old coputer programm, evolutionary hehavior. They do for what they were programmed.

But when I see one of my centipedes seeking a roach by smell, they sway their heads from side to side and move slowly. But if I startle them and they drop the roach and run for their burrow, they move straight to where they dropped the roach with no hesitation at all once they come out again. This goes for both my centipedes too.

Maybe next time I feed them i should disturb the centipede so it drops the food and runs for cover, then move the roach from the spot it dropped it at and see if it heads for the scent of the roach or the location it dropped the roach

 

[Staehilomyces]

Adding onto that, I once saw a video where a S. alternans was fed a tarantula. The pede killed the T, and then for some reason headed into its lair. Almost immediately after, it returned, taking a different path to that which it took before, grabbed the T, and dragged it into its lair.

 

[LawnShrimp]

Intelligence of any sort is difficult for humans to gauge as we are only familiar with human ways of thinking. We tend to regard species that are intelligent like humans in some way as more intelligent than others, such as a mantis making 'eye contact', a dolphin using tools, or a juvenile crow playing with leaves. I'd say centipedes are about as far from a human nervous system as can be and are therefore difficult to see as 'intelligent'.

However, I have noticed that centipedes have different temperaments: my S. mutilans all display slightly different attitudes to light, food, contact, etc. I barely had the time to interact with any of my S. hainanum before two dropped eggs so I only have observed the one. She is slow-moving and quiet, always on the surface, often cautious with prey, but always strikes hard and never misses. The other two (from what I can remember) are more aggressive and skittish. My 'Mint Legs' only thinks with the ganglia in his rear. He is a doofus but a vicious doofus nonetheless. He almost always misses his prey when striking and ends up with mouthful of moss instead, but makes up for this by striking at everything while racing around at top speed.

Perhaps some maze tests and operant conditioning might need to be done with centipedes, or other simple intelligence tests to see if they can 'learn'. I have some doubt that centipedes are humanly intelligent like an octopus or a mantis is, but they do have their own complex behavior and are probably not entirely instinct-driven.

 

[Staehilomyces]

In regards to the maze affair, have a look at this thread: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/an-interesting-observation-regarding-centipede-intelligence.289977/

 

[LawnShrimp]

In regards to the maze affair, have a look at this thread: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/an-interesting-observation-regarding-centipede-intelligence.289977/

I had that in mind when I posted. Maybe next rehouse I do, I can test their ability to evade the tactics I used to catch them last time.

 

[Scoly]

Last year, we had a discussion on centipede intelligence. All the input we had suggested that they were quite intelligent by invert standards. Now, we have many new members, and most likely all of us have had more experiences within the time that elapsed between the last thread and now. I thought I'd start up a second discussion on centipede intelligence, to discuss anything we may have observed, and see if anyone has new input for the discussion. One thing I also just found out though is that centipedes apparently have a very scattered nervous system. Does this in any way equate to lower intelligence?

I suspect that all intelligence is distributed, including ours! A severed octopus tentacle will continue to hunt for prey and feed it to a mouth that is no longer there, and a centipede's body will still walk like a centipede even when it's head is necrotic (I observed this in one of my mutilans lately, no idea how it happened but its head was clearly dead but the rest moved correctly). If you were put in conscious control of your leg and back muscles, you wouldn't have a clue how to run. We say run, the body runs, the body says run, the torso, arms and legs say run, they say run, and each muscle group starts doing its thing. Everything is coordinated through abstraction and delegation to relatively autonomous functions, and that's the only way it is possible.

We know this from how we design one of the only other functional complex systems know to us outside of biological entities that can compare in terms of : software. The GUI doesn't know or care how the application logic works, it just sends it messages it understands and gets messages back, likewise the application logic has no idea how the data is stored in the database or how the latter does its thing, it just sends simple messages. And withing the logic, each component is as autonomous as possible, ideally doing just one thing and doing it well, communicating with other components in very simple terms, and hiding its complexity. And that's the only way you can have complex functional systems: abstraction, delegation and autonomy.

But back to centipedes, I had yet another insight into their intelligence yesterday. I very recently got a Scolopendra dalmatica, and seeing how docile it was, I decided to interact with it. Right enough, it was the most docile thing ever, going out of its way not to bite me. So I picked it up and it was a bit skittish, and I couldn't get a photo. I put it back, then later decided to try get a photo again to send it to someone, but this time it was being less cooperative, and ran off my hand back onto the substrate twice before I finally got it on my hand long enough to get a picture. But by this time it was agitated, and running around my hand trying to get down, and I kept turning my hand around to stop it from from getting down, so it bit me.

At first I just found it really funny, that I finally got bitten as that's a first for me, and of course entirely down to my own stupidity and pride because I was pushing to get that photo, and assumed it was so docile I could get away with it. But then it dawned on me... It probably knew all along that I was another creature (to an extent) and it had simply decided not to bite me, despite me picking it up repeatedly and surely harassing it. Only when it ran out of options did it decide to bite. So when they're being handled, they know they're being handled (which is not what we used to say about spiders: just hold your hand flat like the ground and they'll just walk you)

 

[LawnShrimp]

a centipede's body will still walk like a centipede even when it's head is necrotic (I observed this in one of my mutilans lately, no idea how it happened but its head was clearly dead but the rest moved correctly).

Sorry this is off topic, but two of my mutilans just went down that way too. The first was housed alone, and was discovered half-alive, walking in circles. I chilled it to put it out of its misery and cut its 'neck' open to find a lump of black matter. The other was found dead in a communal container with the black mass pushing out of its 'neck'. I believe they are the red-legged morph from Korea. Both had recently molted. I feed them crickets and superworms.

The rest of mine all went though molts at the same time. One of them had just molted in the communal tank, and another one that had already hardened was approaching it quickly. It stopped suddenly, sniffed at its molting friend, and turned around towards another centipede and rested its head on that centipedes' back. It was obviously able to sense its companion was soft-shelled, and gave it a wide berth because of that. This is probably not something that could be tested with another species. S.s.m. are very curious as well. They will climb on the tweezers if I put them in, even though larger centipedes shy away from or attack the cold metal.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Hmm...any ideas where the black matter came from? Never heard of it before.

 

[Staehilomyces]

Also, I think all the large centipedes have a degree of curiosity to them. I feel like that's the main motive of the test bites. Also, I've occasionally been licked by pedes as well. After that, they usually decide to walk onto my hand, or turn around.

 

[LawnShrimp]

Hmm...any ideas where the black matter came from? Never heard of it before.

I was thinking it was a digestive tract impaction, as I use a mix of cocofiber, peat, and fine sand, but that is a fairly common sub for centipedes and I have had no problems with the other 9 that I own. I also though it could be the change feeder crickets as I prefer to use Gryllodes for food but the pet store only had Acheta. Each of the mutilans and all the others too ate Acheta with no problems though. As mutilans is a small species for Scolopendra, perhaps these 10 cm 'pedes are adult and are dying of natural causes? I really don't know and I hope it doesn't get any other centipedes.

 

[Scoly]

Sorry this is off topic, but two of my mutilans just went down that way too. The first was housed alone, and was discovered half-alive, walking in circles. I chilled it to put it out of its misery and cut its 'neck' open to find a lump of black matter. The other was found dead in a communal container with the black mass pushing out of its 'neck'. I believe they are the red-legged morph from Korea. Both had recently molted. I feed them crickets and superworms.

Hmm.. This is interesting. Mine was a red leg variant too (but I believe from China), in a communal setup with two yellow legs and two red legs. I really don't know what it is. It could be infection or parasitic, it could be something it ingested that blocked things, though I suspect that would usually happen further down the digestive track. I think mine had moulted recently too, which might have left it more vulnerable to infection or parasite attacks. The fact it happened to one of yours in a non-communal set up rules out the possibility of a bite from another pede.

I don't think it was an adult as it is substantially smaller than most of the others in its cage. Mine were also fed on crickets. I have to say that overall by bunch don't look that healthy, which I attributes to them probably being captive farmed in China. I was told they prefer their enclosure not to be heated too.