Can superworms replace crickets as a constant feeder for your Ts ?

[LucN]

Easy answer : A big, fat NO !

Story time, people !

When Covid-19 began to hit my area, I decided to limit my visits to the LPS and bought about 20 or so superworms, with the intention to have them last me until fall. My collection consists of the following : B. boehmei adult female, B. hamorii sub-adult female, G. porteri adult female and a T. albopilosus adult female. All have decent feeding responses unless in obvious premolt.

All 4 accept superworms with the exception of the G. porteri's when she goes through random fasting spells. I decided to isolate a few and have them turn into adult beetles. And I also had some excess pupae on hand. Here is what I've observed from my animals.

The B. boehmei readily takes superworms and the pupae but wants NOTHING to do with the beetles. Doesn't matter whether they're freshly pupated or not.

The B. hamorii takes superworms without hesitation, ignores the pupae but goes after the beetles with gusto.

The G. porteri took superworms for the first couple of months, then decided to go on a fast. She doesn't seem to know what to make of the pupae, so she ignored them. Beetles were purposely avoided. She only broke her fast when I offered her a small cricket last week.

The T. albopilosus is official the garbage disposal of the quartet. NOTHING gets refused unless she enters premolt, so she accepted all 3 forms of Zophobas morio on several occasions.

Given that only half of my collection take the darkling beetles, I've concluded that it's just not worth the time and effort to raise supers to adulthood anymore. So I'm returning back to the staple cricket and will only offer a superworms on special occasions, such as following a molt or during the holidays.

Has anyone here had success in converting their entire collection from crickets to beetles ?

Felt like sharing my experience with you all. Thanks for reading

 

[kingshockey]

i dont feed the beetles or crickets to my ts only meal worms or super worms less mess and hassle they dont stink no holding container to clean out every time etc. with new batch of feeders just toss out the tub and done no noise and they last longer

 

[moricollins]

You don't need to get them to turn into beetles to feed the tarantulas with...
I used to solely feed my collection on mealworms (I know they're different than superworms) but you can feed only superworms with no impact the tarantulas... Crush the heads first, supers are bitey!

 

[Jesse607]

I've gone through periods where all I had were different stages of mealworms as feeders. Never had any issues with refusals unless a molt was coming. I never relied solely on Supers though, but I have used the beetles as food too, and I don't remember them being refused by any of my Ts. Tenebrionids (Darkling beetles), are very abundant in a lot of the dryer regions where a lot of our Ts come from, and I would surmise that therefore they make up a decent proportion of their prey in the wild.

 

[LucN]

i dont feed the beetles or crickets to my ts only meal worms or super worms less mess and hassle they dont stink no holding container to clean out every time etc. with new batch of feeders just toss out the tub and done no noise and they last longer

I generally don't maintain my feeders. Usually, they are offered immediately to my Ts. For the superworms in this case, I had to feed them up a bit to ensure they would pupate once isolated. I've heard of instances of isolated supers failing to pupate due to a lack of hydration/food,

You don't need to get them to turn into beetles to feed the tarantulas with...
I used to solely feed my collection on mealworms (I know they're different than superworms) but you can feed only superworms with no impact the tarantulas... Crush the heads first, supers are bitey!

This was an experiment I wanted to do for some time, to see how my Ts would respond to the beetles. Given it's only half-successful, it's not something I plan on doing again. Thus far, I have not witnessed any injury to my Ts from a superworm bite. I often see them attempting to bite back in defence, but they can't quite reach the spiders' legs or underside. If attempts persist, usually the T manages to incapacitate the worm with a good bite to the head.

I've gone through periods where all I had were different stages of mealworms as feeders. Never had any issues with refusals unless a molt was coming. I never relied solely on Supers though, but I have used the beetles as food too, and I don't remember them being refused by any of my Ts. Tenebrionids (Darkling beetles), are very abundant in a lot of the dryer regions where a lot of our Ts come from, and I would surmise that therefore they make up a decent proportion of their prey in the wild.

What can I say ? Not every Tarantula is the same, unfortunately. Just happens that my boehmei and porteri have no interest in the beetles. Not much I can do about it except offer another feeder. I've never had any of mine refuse crickets except when in premolt. Sometimes the most basic of options are the best IME.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Easy answer : A big, fat NO !

Story time, people !

When Covid-19 began to hit my area, I decided to limit my visits to the LPS and bought about 20 or so superworms, with the intention to have them last me until fall. My collection consists of the following : B. boehmei adult female, B. hamorii sub-adult female, G. porteri adult female and a T. albopilosus adult female. All have decent feeding responses unless in obvious premolt.

All 4 accept superworms with the exception of the G. porteri's when she goes through random fasting spells. I decided to isolate a few and have them turn into adult beetles. And I also had some excess pupae on hand. Here is what I've observed from my animals.

The B. boehmei readily takes superworms and the pupae but wants NOTHING to do with the beetles. Doesn't matter whether they're freshly pupated or not.

The B. hamorii takes superworms without hesitation, ignores the pupae but goes after the beetles with gusto.

The G. porteri took superworms for the first couple of months, then decided to go on a fast. She doesn't seem to know what to make of the pupae, so she ignored them. Beetles were purposely avoided. She only broke her fast when I offered her a small cricket last week.

The T. albopilosus is official the garbage disposal of the quartet. NOTHING gets refused unless she enters premolt, so she accepted all 3 forms of Zophobas morio on several occasions.

Given that only half of my collection take the darkling beetles, I've concluded that it's just not worth the time and effort to raise supers to adulthood anymore. So I'm returning back to the staple cricket and will only offer a superworms on special occasions, such as following a molt or during the holidays.

Has anyone here had success in converting their entire collection from crickets to beetles ?

Felt like sharing my experience with you all. Thanks for reading

It's my understanding that there is no scientific proof that a varied diet either helps or harms a T. However no matter how good Filet Mignon is, eventually you would get sick of eating it. Superworms are actually more nutritious than crickets. Your T's have just been conditioned to prefer crickets.

I've never fed my T's superworm pupae as they don't move. T's have evolved over millions of years to be super sensitive to vibrations and air movements, meaning they can easily detect moving prey. Are you tong feeding the pupae? Perhaps they are attacking the pupae defensively instead out of pure hunger.

I'm curious as what led you to waiting till the superworms turned into beetles to feed them out? Why not just feed out the superworms as is? Aren't the beetles supposed to have some kind of chemical defense that makes them unsavory to eat? Have you checked on the difference in nutritional value of superworms v the beetles?

I ask all this is because there is a reason you can easily buy crickets and superworms as feeders. But no one ever sells Tenebrio beetles. Why is that? It's easy to produce them, if you've got the superworms all it takes is time right?

Personally I would use the beetles as part of well rounded invert diet along with crickets, superworms, hornworms and if I could get a clean source, locusts (grasshoppers). Just my $.02

 

[LucN]

It's my understanding that there is no scientific proof that a varied diet either helps or harms a T. However no matter how good Filet Mignon is, eventually you would get sick of eating it. Superworms are actually more nutritious than crickets. Your T's have just been conditioned to prefer crickets.

I've never fed my T's superworm pupae as they don't move. T's have evolved over millions of years to be super sensitive to vibrations and air movements, meaning they can easily detect moving prey. Are you tong feeding the pupae? Perhaps they are attacking the pupae defensively instead out of pure hunger.

I'm curious as what led you to waiting till the superworms turned into beetles to feed them out? Why not just feed out the superworms as is? Aren't the beetles supposed to have some kind of chemical defense that makes them unsavory to eat? Have you checked on the difference in nutritional value of superworms v the beetles?

I ask all this is because there is a reason you can easily buy crickets and superworms as feeders. But no one ever sells Tenebrio beetles. Why is that? It's easy to produce them, if you've got the superworms all it takes is time right?

Personally I would use the beetles as part of well rounded invert diet along with crickets, superworms, hornworms and if I could get a clean source, locusts (grasshoppers). Just my $.02

Ok, first off, I was under the impression that supers are too fattening to feed constantly. I wouldn't want them to have too large an abdomen, given they are mostly all adults and growth between molts is minimal at best. Plus feeding supers is not the most exciting takedown to watch. Crickets, on the other hand, I've had witnessed many incredible pounces. There must have been a barrel roll at some point

Second, in response to feeding pupae, I just dropped them next to my boehmei and albopilosus and they grabbed them right away.

Third, of course I've fed countless supers over the past 10 years, but I stand by my point that crickets are more entertaining to watch being hunted and caught. I do not know anything of the nutritional qualities of supers vs the beetles. The exercise was merely an experiment to see if my Ts would react favourably. Only 2 out of 4 accepted them, so I'm better off sticking with crickets most of the time.

Last, but certainly not least, I live in Canada, so my feeder options are limited. No locusts, hornworms or any type of roaches. Only crickets, mealworms and superworms.

I hope that answers everything. Thanks everyone for the discussion. I may still be a newbie, but I do read through the replies and try to soak it all in. Even though I've only worked with the BAG genus so far, I'm enjoying every moment of it. Maybe one of these days, I'll hop over the "intermediate" group of Ts, such as Nhandu, Phormictopus, Psalmopeus, etc...

 

[Frogdaddy]

Ok, first off, I was under the impression that supers are too fattening to feed constantly. I wouldn't want them to have too large an abdomen, given they are mostly all adults and growth between molts is minimal at best. Plus feeding supers is not the most exciting takedown to watch. Crickets, on the other hand, I've had witnessed many incredible pounces. There must have been a barrel roll at some point

Second, in response to feeding pupae, I just dropped them next to my boehmei and albopilosus and they grabbed them right away.

Third, of course I've fed countless supers over the past 10 years, but I stand by my point that crickets are more entertaining to watch being hunted and caught. I do not know anything of the nutritional qualities of supers vs the beetles. The exercise was merely an experiment to see if my Ts would react favourably. Only 2 out of 4 accepted them, so I'm better off sticking with crickets most of the time.

Last, but certainly not least, I live in Canada, so my feeder options are limited. No locusts, hornworms or any type of roaches. Only crickets, mealworms and superworms.

I hope that answers everything. Thanks everyone for the discussion. I may still be a newbie, but I do read through the replies and try to soak it all in. Even though I've only worked with the BAG genus so far, I'm enjoying every moment of it. Maybe one of these days, I'll hop over the "intermediate" group of Ts, such as Nhandu, Phormictopus, Psalmopeus, etc...

For pure entertainment value, yes crickets are much more an entertaining meal. Much more of a show watching a hunting T stalk a cricket. SInce superworms get their head crushed when feeding, not as much fun for the most part.

A quick search revealed some good insights on different insects and their nutritional values.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ba57/ab8ec23170fd2f092587e347d38966c4c84a.pdf

Tarantula Nutrition

So I was curious to any updated info that people may have on this subject. We do always post what are the best feeders when it comes to breeding capabilities. But on a nutritional value what do you think, or have found, is the best for a good healthy long lived T? I'm asking this for those who...

arachnoboards.com

This is my favorite, just in case you wanted to eat some insects. It even describes what different insects taste like.

Nutritional and sensory quality of edible insects

Insects are for many nations and ethnic groups an indispensable part of the diet. From a nutritional point of view, insects have significant protein c…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[arachnidgill]

Last, but certainly not least, I live in Canada, so my feeder options are limited. No locusts, hornworms or any type of roaches. Only crickets, mealworms and superworms.

Hornworms are readily available at most pet shops in Canada, unless they are banned in your area for some reason? Other options are wax worms, silk worms and butter worms if you are looking to mix it up.

 

[LucN]

For pure entertainment value, yes crickets are much more an entertaining meal. Much more of a show watching a hunting T stalk a cricket. SInce superworms get their head crushed when feeding, not as much fun for the most part.

A quick search revealed some good insights on different insects and their nutritional values.

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ba57/ab8ec23170fd2f092587e347d38966c4c84a.pdf

Tarantula Nutrition

So I was curious to any updated info that people may have on this subject. We do always post what are the best feeders when it comes to breeding capabilities. But on a nutritional value what do you think, or have found, is the best for a good healthy long lived T? I'm asking this for those who...

arachnoboards.com

This is my favorite, just in case you wanted to eat some insects. It even describes what different insects taste like.

Nutritional and sensory quality of edible insects

Insects are for many nations and ethnic groups an indispensable part of the diet. From a nutritional point of view, insects have significant protein c…

www.sciencedirect.com

Yep, in my limited experience, nothing gives a show like a hungry T stalking a cricket or two.

Thanks for supplying those links, I will definitely look them up to sate my curiosity. Not sure I'd go to lengths of eating insects, but knowing what they taste like could be interesting.

Hornworms are readily available at most pet shops in Canada, unless they are banned in your area for some reason? Other options are wax worms, silk worms and butter worms if you are looking to mix it up.

I'll be honest, I never paid close attention to what feeders they have on the shelves, but I know there's canned crickets, something I wouldn't bother buying. The live insects are kept at the back of the store, where clients can't access. Next time I drop by for feeders, I'll inquire about other types of worms, but I'd be really surprised if they had hornworms on hand. Thanks for the tip

 

[Frogdaddy]

Wax worms are a good occasional treat. Higher in fat but they would pupate into moths you could feed. Now that would be a fun takedown.

 

[coolnweird]

Wax worms are a good occasional treat. Higher in fat but they would pupate into moths you could feed. Now that would be a fun takedown.

I'd love to let some moths pupate and offer them to my P. reduncus. Incredible hunting behavior from that one, I'm sure she'd destroy a moth if given the chance!

 

[FrDoc]

Yes

 

[CommanderBacon]

While I would not go through the agony of waiting for a superworm to pupate into a beetle only to feed it to one of my spiders, I appreciate your dedication to this experiment.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Ok, first off, I was under the impression that supers are too fattening to feed constantly.

Nope, used to be the only things I'd feed to my AF genic until I started a dubia colony, she was fine eating 1 morio worm every 2-3 weeks.

For adults of slow growing species you only need to feed them 1 morio worm every 4-6 weeks anyway

 

[Jesse607]

What can I say ? Not every Tarantula is the same, unfortunately. Just happens that my boehmei and porteri have no interest in the beetles. Not much I can do about it except offer another feeder. I've never had any of mine refuse crickets except when in premolt. Sometimes the most basic of options are the best IME.

Ah yes, I definitely won't argue with that. Crickets seem to get even the "laziest" predators to react and feed. I have had some of my Ts seem disinterested in particular prey items, only to pounce enthusiastically on another. I've had T's go through phases where they seem disinterested in one kind of prey item, but on a later date start feeding on that particular food item again. Although I don't believe it is a requirement, I myself alternate between feeder insects (dubia, lateralis, different mealworm stages, lesser mealworms for slings/small Ts, Lobster roaches, superworms of different stages, and occasionally crickets).