Brown/Tan liquid around A. Avics mouth

[Ethereal45]

I had my A. Avic for about a year and no issues, ferocious little eater always hungry and happy. After molting last year on July 25, 2024 he has not molted again since then, I figured any day now I would look in and see that he's done it but to no avail. Fed every week about 2 crickets but since November 7, 2024 he hasn't accepted any feeders I've tried to offer. Crickets or super worms. Today I noticed his legs curling up a bit, I looked closer and found there's a white or brownish liquid around his mouth, and he's very lethargic, standing on his tippy toes, after some research on this board I found out that nematodes were. I don't think this is the case but if someone more experienced could help me I would appreciate it alot I don't wanna lose my little guy, I've tried wiping some of this liquid off his fangs gently with a damp q tip and some came off but not all of it. Will include pictures below. Sorry for the long read tried to include as much details as possible. Below are some close ups of this liquid on his fangs.

 

[viper69]

It looks like poop, but these are average images. If it was me, I'd call a vet, and ask how you can bring a sample in w/out bringing your T if possible.

Even if no parasites, it sounds not well.

Really not enough info, what's your husbandry.

 

[regalpaws]

I agree with Viper, what is your husbandry like?
I was specifically wondering what your enclosure looks like, does it have wire mesh ventilation at the top? If so, I was wondering if he fell?

 

[Ethereal45]

It looks like poop, but these are average images. If it was me, I'd call a vet, and ask how you can bring a sample in w/out bringing your T if possible.

Even if no parasites, it sounds not well.

Really not enough info, what's your husbandry.

It looks like poop, but these are average images. If it was me, I'd call a vet, and ask how you can bring a sample in w/out bringing your T if possible.

Even if no parasites, it sounds not well.

Really not enough info, what's your husbandry.

I don't think there's a vet around me that cares for Tarantulas, I think it's poop too but he hasn't eaten in a very long time even through continuous offerings every few days or a week. When I was cleaning his fangs with the damp q tip he did shoot some poo but not very much lol.. I have him in a NANEZOO acrylic enclosure I wanna say 10x7, good ventilation, Coco fiber (Eco earth) substrate, cork bark and a artificial plant, water change every day (purified water only no tap and distilled water for misting). Mist a corner once about every 2 weeks. There are springtails in the substrate that constantly get into the water dish so I just keep changing it to keep them out of it. After any feeding I remove the remains and throw them away, I don't breed my own feeders, I buy crickets from a outdoors store and occasionally feed super worms if they'll take them. I'm worried that those crickets might have been what caused this but I own 2 tarantulas both kept identical except my other T is a matured female curly hair and they both ate those crickets and my curly haired T is fine, she accepts food still and seems pretty happy. Pink toe is still alive currently, but after putting him back in his web hammock he's just sitting on the outside of the opening and his feet kinda curling up under him I haven't checked to see if more of that fluid is around his mouth. Just took a picture of him and he moved his legs very slowly. Earlier today he did refuse food I offered a super worm and seemed pretty fast to back away and refuse it until I backed away. That's when I had noticed his legs curling up

I agree with Viper, what is your husbandry like?
I was specifically wondering what your enclosure looks like, does it have wire mesh ventilation at the top? If so, I was wondering if he fell?

It's a NANEZOO acrylic arboreal enclosure from Amazon it has holes on the sliding lid with magnets and holes on the side. I don't believe he fell he rarely comes out of his web hammock since he built it and sometimes will come out to drink water but I haven't seen him drink in a little while. It's not very tall either, it's like 10 inches tall

I don't think there's a vet around me that cares for Tarantulas, I think it's poop too but he hasn't eaten in a very long time even through continuous offerings every few days or a week. When I was cleaning his fangs with the damp q tip he did shoot some poo but not very much lol.. I have him in a NANEZOO acrylic enclosure I wanna say 10x7, good ventilation, Coco fiber (Eco earth) substrate, cork bark and a artificial plant, water change every day (purified water only no tap and distilled water for misting). Mist a corner once about every 2 weeks. There are springtails in the substrate that constantly get into the water dish so I just keep changing it to keep them out of it. After any feeding I remove the remains and throw them away, I don't breed my own feeders, I buy crickets from a outdoors store and occasionally feed super worms if they'll take them. I'm worried that those crickets might have been what caused this but I own 2 tarantulas both kept identical except my other T is a matured female curly hair and they both ate those crickets and my curly haired T is fine, she accepts food still and seems pretty happy. Pink toe is still alive currently, but after putting him back in his web hammock he's just sitting on the outside of the opening and his feet kinda curling up under him I haven't checked to see if more of that fluid is around his mouth. Just took a picture of him and he moved his legs very slowly. Earlier today he did refuse food I offered a super worm and seemed pretty fast to back away and refuse it until I backed away. That's when I had noticed his legs curling up

I do want to add here he only shot that poop because I had him sit on the enclosures lid so I could clean his fangs up, he was walking off the lid so I slowly put a straw in front of him to stop him, and then he aimed and fired lol. He wasn't put in any pain by me cleaning his fangs, in fact I think he was kinda tolerant to it or just didn't care cause he's miserable.. guess all I can do is hope he recovers. I got some of the stuff off and his fangs were visible again. But if this is nemotodes chances are he won't be able to use his fangs right? And do you think it looks like nematodes?

 

[regalpaws]

I do want to add here he only shot that poop because I had him sit on the enclosures lid so I could clean his fangs up, he was walking off the lid so I slowly put a straw in front of him to stop him, and then he aimed and fired lol. He wasn't put in any pain by me cleaning his fangs, in fact I think he was kinda tolerant to it or just didn't care cause he's miserable.. guess all I can do is hope he recovers. I got some of the stuff off and his fangs were visible again. But if this is nemotodes chances are he won't be able to use his fangs right? And do you think it looks like nematodes?

This may be a weird question, but what does the liquid smell like by chance?
I don't have any experience thankfully with nemotodes, but i was doing a little reading.

Here is a thread you may be interest in:

nematode symptoms??

A juvenile T.blondi around 6 inches accross, fine and eating a few days ago. Today i find a live cricket still in tank and then notice something protuding slightly from the mouth. I put into a clear box to observe her underside. she has white material in the mouth area, not like the...

arachnoboards.com

" typical symptoms to watch out for are; restlessness, spinning unusual amounts of silk, spending long periods around the water dish, any unusual sweet smell coming from the container, a very wet sternum caused by the spider drooling (not to be confused with normal cleaning behaviour) and, most importantly, a white sticky mass around the mouth and holding the palps permanently under the chelicerae. For some reason the chelicerae become paralysed, making it impossible for the spider to clean itself and making feeding impossible. A quick test is to gently shake the spiders' container. Under normal circumstances, the spider will steady itself with all the legs and this includes placing the palps on the floor also. Infected spiders won't do this. You can also try feeding, as affected spiders cannot attack prey"

Someone also mentioned to put rubbing alcohol on the liquid to see if the nemotodes swirl off.

 

[viper69]

I don't think there's a vet around me that cares for Tarantulas, I think it's poop too but he hasn't eaten in a very long time even through continuous offerings every few days or a week. When I was cleaning his fangs with the damp q tip he did shoot some poo but not very much lol.. I have him in a NANEZOO acrylic enclosure I wanna say 10x7, good ventilation, Coco fiber (Eco earth) substrate, cork bark and a artificial plant, water change every day (purified water only no tap and distilled water for misting). Mist a corner once about every 2 weeks. There are springtails in the substrate that constantly get into the water dish so I just keep changing it to keep them out of it. After any feeding I remove the remains and throw them away, I don't breed my own feeders, I buy crickets from a outdoors store and occasionally feed super worms if they'll take them. I'm worried that those crickets might have been what caused this but I own 2 tarantulas both kept identical except my other T is a matured female curly hair and they both ate those crickets and my curly haired T is fine, she accepts food still and seems pretty happy. Pink toe is still alive currently, but after putting him back in his web hammock he's just sitting on the outside of the opening and his feet kinda curling up under him I haven't checked to see if more of that fluid is around his mouth. Just took a picture of him and he moved his legs very slowly. Earlier today he did refuse food I offered a super worm and seemed pretty fast to back away and refuse it until I backed away. That's when I had noticed his legs curling up

It doesn't matter, vets understand parasitology, and can detect if your T has them or not with proper sample.

Misting- never a good idea, unless you observe your Avic to be dehydrated, or in need of water. I don't think that's the issue going by your words.

Sometimes they just die, for seemingly unknown reasons. Though I think there are reasons, but no one brings their T in for a necropsy.

If the air in the cage smells a bit musty, then that's your issue, ie the misting.

 

[Ethereal45]

This may be a weird question, but what does the liquid smell like by chance?
I don't have any experience thankfully with nemotodes, but i was doing a little reading.

I didn't think to smell it, it wasn't very much that came off on the q tip I just threw it away when I was done. I don't smell any weird smells from the enclosure just that usual earthy smell that comes from the eco earth substrate. I was reading a little too, and some pictures of nematodes look more like strings of worms not like what was on my Ts fangs. This is more of a liquid like vomit or something, it doesn't make much sense if he was eating his poop all of a sudden but not taking actual food for 5 months. Same goes for overfeeding. Plus why hasn't he molted yet? I blamed refusing food on him being in premolt but it's been 9 months almost since the last one.

It doesn't matter, vets understand parasitology, and can detect if your T has them or not with proper sample.

Misting- never a good idea, unless you observe your Avic to be dehydrated, or in need of water. I don't think that's the issue going by your words.

Sometimes they just die, for seemingly unknown reasons. Though I think there are reasons, but no one brings their T in for a necropsy.

If the air in the cage smells a bit musty, then that's your issue, ie the misting.

It's pretty dry in there atm, not really musty smelling just smells like dirt. I thought it's good to maintain some humidity to prevent bad molts, that's not true?

This may be a weird question, but what does the liquid smell like by chance?
I don't have any experience thankfully with nemotodes, but i was doing a little reading.

Here is a thread you may be interest in:

nematode symptoms??

A juvenile T.blondi around 6 inches accross, fine and eating a few days ago. Today i find a live cricket still in tank and then notice something protuding slightly from the mouth. I put into a clear box to observe her underside. she has white material in the mouth area, not like the...

arachnoboards.com

" typical symptoms to watch out for are; restlessness, spinning unusual amounts of silk, spending long periods around the water dish, any unusual sweet smell coming from the container, a very wet sternum caused by the spider drooling (not to be confused with normal cleaning behaviour) and, most importantly, a white sticky mass around the mouth and holding the palps permanently under the chelicerae. For some reason the chelicerae become paralysed, making it impossible for the spider to clean itself and making feeding impossible. A quick test is to gently shake the spiders' container. Under normal circumstances, the spider will steady itself with all the legs and this includes placing the palps on the floor also. Infected spiders won't do this. You can also try feeding, as affected spiders cannot attack prey"

Someone also mentioned to put rubbing alcohol on the liquid to see if the nemotodes swirl off.

I just tried this, gently moved his enclosure around and he did steady himself and his palps did come out and rest on his web along with the rest of his legs. Just very slowly.

 

[regalpaws]

It's pretty dry in there atm, not really musty smelling just smells like dirt. I thought it's good to maintain some humidity to prevent bad molts, that's not true?

Misting doesn't really actually provide humidity, not lasting anyways. Keeping a corner of the enclosure does, or even a water dish will. Avics really need their enclosure on the drier side, but absolutely no moisture in the substrate isn't really the best either in my personal experience. I always poured a small amount of water in a corner like 1x/month or so for my Avic. He was healthy till he matured out.

I have kept a blue footed baboon, and they are a species you keep dry. I would also dribble a little bit of water like 1x/month or longer, after I did that, I noticed a molt.
But, its all relative where you live, and conditions in your home as well.

Its debatable whether humidity helps with molts, but personally, I have always experienced molts after I gave them a little extra water in a corner. Especially moisture dependent species.

 

[NMTs]

I believe the brown stuff is regurgitated digestive fluids, and usually once they get to this point it ends up being fatal. Not sure what causes it - could be dehydration or a toxin of some sort. Generally speaking, when this happens in avics it's usually dehydration (symptoms also include lethargy, curling legs and inability/unwillingness to eat), but it sounds like you've done a good job of providing water for it to drink. There must be some other underlying issue, figuring out what is anyone's guess. As @viper69 alluded to, very little is understood about the health and medical issues these invertebrates encounter, therefore diagnosing and coming up with a remedy is just speculation.

I hope your little one pulls through.

 

[viper69]

I believe the brown stuff is regurgitated digestive fluids, and usually once they get to this point it ends up being fatal. Not sure what causes it - could be dehydration or a toxin of some sort. Generally speaking, when this happens in avics it's usually dehydration (symptoms also include lethargy, curling legs and inability/unwillingness to eat), but it sounds like you've done a good job of providing water for it to drink. There must be some other underlying issue, figuring out what is anyone's guess. As @viper69 alluded to, very little is understood about the health and medical issues these invertebrates encounter, therefore diagnosing and coming up with a remedy is just speculation.

I hope your little one pulls through.

I haven’t kept many species, only about 60-70, don’t think I’ve reached 100, but of all of them NW/OW Avics IME are the most prone to dehydration, even when owners SEEM to be doing the right thing.

 

[NMTs]

I haven’t kept many species, only about 60-70, don’t think I’ve reached 100, but of all of them NW/OW Avics IME are the most prone to dehydration, even when owners SEEM to be doing the right thing.

I've not kept that many, but just watching threads on here shows how frequently it is an issue for avics. The genus in distant second seems to be Theraphosa. Interesting because they have almost completely opposite husbandry requirements...

 

[viper69]

I've not kept that many, but just watching threads on here shows how frequently it is an issue for avics. The genus in distant second seems to be Theraphosa. Interesting because they have almost completely opposite husbandry requirements...

Seems that way

The vast majority of people with Avic issues have bad husbandry, mostly due to improper venting when combined with humidity. That’s a simple fact- moist stagnant air is a killer.

They are a genus that seems only able to tolerate a narrow range of captive conditions, unlike a GBB, or Brachy and some others.

What’s always been interesting to me is the high humidity Asian species seem to tolerate a wider range of conditions, at least mine did. They certainly aren’t reported on AB as having issues in large numbers.

So, something is different about their physiology than with Avics. I wish I knew.

 

[Ethereal45]

I believe the brown stuff is regurgitated digestive fluids, and usually once they get to this point it ends up being fatal. Not sure what causes it - could be dehydration or a toxin of some sort. Generally speaking, when this happens in avics it's usually dehydration (symptoms also include lethargy, curling legs and inability/unwillingness to eat), but it sounds like you've done a good job of providing water for it to drink. There must be some other underlying issue, figuring out what is anyone's guess. As @viper69 alluded to, very little is understood about the health and medical issues these invertebrates encounter, therefore diagnosing and coming up with a remedy is just speculation.

I hope your little one pulls through.

I understand It's unfortunate we don't have the same knowledge about these creatures that we know about every other animal almost to be able to at least try to save them.

Seems that way

The vast majority of people with Avic issues have bad husbandry, mostly due to improper venting when combined with humidity. That’s a simple fact- moist stagnant air is a killer.

They are a genus that seems only able to tolerate a narrow range of captive conditions, unlike a GBB, or Brachy and some others.

What’s always been interesting to me is the high humidity Asian species seem to tolerate a wider range of conditions, at least mine did. They certainly aren’t reported on AB as having issues in large numbers.

So, something is different about their physiology than with Avics. I wish I knew.

I'll definitely keep this in mind if I get another one if this guy doesn't pull through. It's not looking good tho his palps are tucked under and his legs are curled still. I read that to painlessly kill them is put them in the freezer. I don't want the lil guy to suffer if he's not going to make it. But I'll wait a bit longer to know for sure. Ill definitely try harder next time if I buy this species again. And thank you guys for the info. Here's the enclosure too

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

I’m very sorry to hear about your T. Assuming you already tried putting her mouthparts in a water dish. The freezer being humane is debated. I could not find the article right now, but had found something more specific to insects in a similar vein as this reptile article when I had to euthanize a T.

Is “cooling then freezing” a humane way to kill amphibians and reptiles? - PMC

What is the most humane way to kill amphibians and small reptiles that are used in research? Historically, such animals were often killed by cooling followed by freezing, but this method was outlawed by ethics committees because of concerns that ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.

Here’s one on invertebrates:

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/35022

 

[Ethereal45]

I’m very sorry to hear about your T. Assuming you already tried putting her mouthparts in a water dish. The freezer being humane is debated. I could not find the article right now, but had found something more specific to insects in a similar vein as this reptile article when I had to euthanize a T.

Is “cooling then freezing” a humane way to kill amphibians and reptiles? - PMC

What is the most humane way to kill amphibians and small reptiles that are used in research? Historically, such animals were often killed by cooling followed by freezing, but this method was outlawed by ethics committees because of concerns that ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.

Here’s one on invertebrates:

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/35022

What do u mean put mouthparts in a water dish? You mean I should try to make it drink?

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

What do u mean put mouthparts in a water dish? You mean I should try to make it drink?

Worth a shot to see if she’ll drink, or maybe even rinse a bit of the gunk off. Sadly, there isn’t a lot you can do. :-(

 

[Ethereal45]

Worth a shot to see if she’ll drink, or maybe even rinse a bit of the gunk off. Sadly, there isn’t a lot you can do. :-(

I tried what u said, he dunked his mouth into the bottle cap, stayed down for a bit and kept waving his legs, very much alive still. After a few seconds of grabbing/climbing onto my tongs he gave up and crawled away I'm gonna leave him be for the night and I'll update in the morning. The looks of the legs isn't a good sign I know. I appreciate any and all help if he pulls through tonight and if someone knows how to save him
View attachment 20250411_025405.mp4
View attachment 20250411_025405.mp4

 

[Ethereal45]

Update : He's still alive currently, legs still curled under, a larger amount of this liquid around his fangs, under side. When I opened the enclosure he waved his legs up and down still curled, not like when he walks just waving them. Here's a Pic. It looks like digestive fluids might be the deal here like NMTs suggested. I'll be raising my own feeders from now on cause I think it's the crickets that did this to him. I fed crickets, sweet potatoes, carrots, sometimes lettuce I always rinsed and scrubbed the veggies before hand. I take my responsibility to these creatures very serious but I guess I still did something wrong when keeping this species. I'll post an update if he makes it or not and get samples tested if he does pass. Thank you guys

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Update : He's still alive currently, legs still curled under, a larger amount of this liquid around his fangs, under side. When I opened the enclosure he waved his legs up and down still curled, not like when he walks just waving them. Here's a Pic. It looks like digestive fluids might be the deal here like NMTs suggested. I'll be raising my own feeders from now on cause I think it's the crickets that did this to him. I fed crickets, sweet potatoes, carrots, sometimes lettuce I always rinsed and scrubbed the veggies before hand. I take my responsibility to these creatures very serious but I guess I still did something wrong when keeping this species. I'll post an update if he makes it or not and get samples tested if he does pass. Thank you guys

I understand taking responsibility for creatures in your care, but it may not be anything you did, as you said your other was fine. It really sucks to loose a T and not know why. Please do keep us updated. Pulling for him.

 

[Ethereal45]

Update : He's still alive but my baby can't walk anymore ;( I'm trying everything don't know if I'm helping but I will try anything at this point if someone knows what to do. I'm using z q tip in some water and I want to say he's drinking from it. But I can't rlly tell. I'll do this as long as he seems to accept the water. I'm really hoping I can save my baby T not giving up and if anyone can help me with more knowledge I would really appreciate you. He's in a death curl and he's barely moving at all he can't even extend his legs anymore

Edit : around 20 minutes later he still seems like hes accepting water from this q tip. I'm not sure how much I should keep doing this for him I don't wanna over do it if that's even possible. 3rd Pic is him now. I'm wondering if I should take him out of this enclosure and put him a dryer fresh substrate to get him somewhere more controlled