Breeding and Cohabiting D. leucomelas (Bumblebee Dart Frog), D. tinctorius (Dyeing Dart Frog), & Mourning Geckos.

[Scorpiobsession]

I am planning on cohabitating mourning geckos with either bumblebee and/or dyeing PDFs. I am planning on using an 18"x18"x24" (46cm x 46cm x 61cm) and using bioactive (plants and microfauna) substrate layers. I decided that I want a male and female pair (of the same species of course) to reduce the risk of aggression. However, I'm not sure if I will be able to fit one or both pairs in the enclosure with the geckos. Also how would I breed the frogs, I'm planning adding a large water dish (with stones to prevent drowning) for the frogs to lay their eggs in. Could anyone provide details on the remaining process? I'm also wondering which plants to add to the tank. I'm not sure which ones would thrive in 80% humidity and about 78*F. If anyone could provide pictures of tanks, breeding stages, frogs, plants, etc. it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance

 

[moricollins]

Hello, have you kept dart frogs before?
Have you kept mourning geckos before?

Despite what SO MANY people say on YouTube, these species ARE NOT compatible in the same terrarium.

18x18x24" is NOT a very large tank compared to the amount of space that these frogs will use in the wild.

My recommendation is: pick a SINGLE SPECIES and keep them. One tank, one species, no mixing of dart frogs and no day frogs and mourning geckos together.

 

[Frogdaddy]

The enclosure you have selected is better suited to smaller more arboreal frogs such as the various Ranitomeya species. The Dendrobates species you mentioned are more terrestrial in nature and need more floor space. More length and width, less height.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE to keep all the animals you mentioned together without the health of all of them suffering in that enclosure.

Dart frog species do not mix. They will hybridize and you will not be able to tell who the parents are. Hybrids are very frowned upon in the dart frog hobby. Even more so than the invert hobby. You'll be stuck with them till they die. No one will want them and they shouldn't be released into the hobby anyway.
One species/color morph/locale per enclosure please.

 

[moricollins]

The enclosure you have selected is better suited to smaller more arboreal frogs such as the various Ranitomeya species. The Dendrobates species you mentioned are more terrestrial in nature and need more floor space. More length and width, less height.

It would be IMPOSSIBLE to keep all the animals you mentioned together without the health of all of them suffering in that enclosure.

Dart frog species do not mix. They will hybridize and you will not be able to tell who the parents are. Hybrids are very frowned upon in the dart frog hobby. Even more so than the invert hobby. You'll be stuck with them till they die. No one will want them and they shouldn't be released into the hobby anyway.
One species/color morph/locale per enclosure please.

One thing I would SIGHTLY disagree with here, an 18x18x24" tank is acceptable for a pair of Dendrobates leucomelas, but other than that, agreed with all of @Frogdaddy

 

[Scorpiobsession]

I have not kept either species but I have some experience with bioactive terrariums and keeping temps and humidity stable. I wasn't sure if 4 frogs (two pairs of two species) were kept together if there was still a risk of hybridization. I do still think that the frogs and geckos could cohabit since the geckos are arboreal and will rarely, if ever, go on the ground. The frogs are terrestrial and will not go into the arboreal section. They are active at different times of the day and I have seen that they are one of, if not the only, species that can easily cohabitate with dart frogs (I have read this in tons of places like Josh's Frogs and ReptiFiles). I have read that the D. leucomelas could live inside an enclosure that size. If you still think that they can't be cohabitated prove me wrong because keeping them happy and safe is my priority.

 

[moricollins]

Not my job to prove you wrong. You clearly don't care what anyone else says. You've Never kept dart frogs, never kept mourning geckos but you know everything because VENDORS WHO HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO SELL YOU GECKOS WITH FROGS say that you can house them together.

Search for "terribilis eats mourning gecko" and you'll find pictures of dart frogs EATING mourning geckos, so yes, the geckos go to ground level on a regular basis.

Dart Frogs are terrestrial, but I've seen EVERY SINGLE SPECIES of dart frog I own climb to the top of their tanks exploring.

 

[Scorpiobsession]

You clearly don't care what anyone else says.

I do except I didn't see any reasons about cohabitating the frogs and geckos. However the replies did discourage me from cohabitating two frog species.

You've Never kept dart frogs, never kept mourning geckos

Which is why I came here for advice.

VENDORS WHO HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO SELL YOU GECKOS WITH FROGS

There are other places who don't sell and aren't sponsored by any sellers saying that (eg. ReptiFiles is a website that doesn't encourage buying or breeding without extremely careful consideration).

Search for "terribilis eats mourning gecko" and you'll find pictures of dart frogs EATING mourning geckos, so yes, the geckos go to ground level on a regular basis.

I did just that and did some research. It's helpful to know that the geckos do go to the ground. However P. terribilis is the largest frog species. D. leucomelas are some of the smallest. Is there a risk of cannibalization since they're the same size? I would be removing mourning gecko eggs and raising them separately, so the babies couldn't be eaten unless I missed some eggs.

I've seen EVERY SINGLE SPECIES of dart frog I own climb to the top of their tanks exploring.

Also useful information, it's good to know that even though they are labeled as terrestrial and arboreal species they still go into the opposite area. They shouldn't often come in contact because they are active at different times of the day but I'm sure there's going to be an outlier sometimes. I'm going to be adding lots of plant and artificial cover that should allow them to feel secure.

 

[moricollins]

Your goal as an owner of LIVING ANIMALS should be WHAT IS BEST FOR THOSE ANIMALS . That is NOT cohabiting species because you don't THINK they'll come in contact with each other (they will, eventually).

Reasons not to cohabitate:
1. The animals gain no benefit from it
2. There's a risk of pathogen transfer from one species to another
3. Your 18x18x24" tank doesn't allow space for one of the species to actually get away from the other if they are being harassed
4. They WILL come in contact with each other , sooner or later.
5. Your tank is only BARELY big enough for a pair of dart frogs, when properly setup let alone adding extra animals in.
6. You have no experience to know when that's a problem with either type of animal. Putting them together means you're going to have no idea what any of the warning signs are for either of them, let alone both of them at once.
7. Dart frogs are not purely diurnal they are active at dusk as well, when the geckos will be starting to become active. They will interact, and that's NOT A GOOD THING when confined to roughly 30 gallons of space.

I'm going to suggest you join a dedicated forum for dart frogs and seek your answers there. There are several high quality dart frog forums

 

[Frogdaddy]

Even P. terribilis will climb to the top of a 36" tall enclosure. Dart frogs will use every available surface to climb on even the upper reaches where geckos would be.
I wouldn't call D. leucomelas a small dart frog. They are an average, medium size. I've had some big ol females that were quite large, and Tincs definitely big enough to eat a baby gecko.

I do except I didn't see any reasons about cohabitating the frogs and geckos. However the replies did discourage me from cohabitating two frog species.

They never come into contact in the wild. They don't cohabitate, much less meet ever. The idea these two species are compatible just because they share similar environmental requirements is an entirely man made gimmick.

 

[Scorpiobsession]

Your goal as an owner of LIVING ANIMALS should be WHAT IS BEST FOR THOSE ANIMALS . That is NOT cohabiting species because you don't THINK they'll come in contact with each other (they will, eventually).

Reasons not to cohabitate:
1. The animals gain no benefit from it
2. There's a risk of pathogen transfer from one species to another
3. Your 18x18x24" tank doesn't allow space for one of the species to actually get away from the other if they are being harassed
4. They WILL come in contact with each other , sooner or later.
5. Your tank is only BARELY big enough for a pair of dart frogs, when properly setup let alone adding extra animals in.
6. You have no experience to know when that's a problem with either type of animal. Putting them together means you're going to have no idea what any of the warning signs are for either of them, let alone both of them at once.
7. Dart frogs are not purely diurnal they are active at dusk as well, when the geckos will be starting to become active. They will interact, and that's NOT A GOOD THING when confined to roughly 30 gallons of space.

I'm going to suggest you join a dedicated forum for dart frogs and seek your answers there. There are several high quality dart frog forums

Thank you, I'm going to look into Ranitomeya species and possibly make the tank for an arboreal frog species. I do still have an interest in keeping the D. leucomelas what do you think is a good sized enclosure for them? I've read that 10 gallons per frog is a good size, can larger groups (1.3 or 2.2?) be kept together or is it best to stick to 1.1 pairs?

 

[Frogdaddy]

Thank you, I'm going to look into Ranitomeya species and possibly make the tank for an arboreal frog species. I do still have an interest in keeping the D. leucomelas what do you think is a good sized enclosure for them? I've read that 10 gallons per frog is a good size, can larger groups (eg. 1.3) be kept together or is it best to stick to 1.1 pairs?

You could do either, provided you have a large enough enclosure and you can actually find pairs and groups. Something to keep in mind is that if you house two males together you may have some intra sex aggression but females will also wrestle and chase each other to establish dominance. I think the females are more aggressive than the males personally. Make sure you have plenty of room for subordinate frogs to get out of the way or hide.

 

[moricollins]

Ranitomeya aren't that much more arboreal than Dendrobates in my experience. Random shot of my Ranitomeya sirensis that I took the other day after walking into my frog room...
2 of them, rummaging through the leaf litter for flies...

 

[viper69]

I am planning on cohabitating mourning geckos with either bumblebee and/or dyeing PDFs. I am planning on using an 18"x18"x24" (46cm x 46cm x 61cm) and using bioactive (plants and microfauna) substrate layers. I decided that I want a male and female pair (of the same species of course) to reduce the risk of aggression. However, I'm not sure if I will be able to fit one or both pairs in the enclosure with the geckos. Also how would I breed the frogs, I'm planning adding a large water dish (with stones to prevent drowning) for the frogs to lay their eggs in. Could anyone provide details on the remaining process? I'm also wondering which plants to add to the tank. I'm not sure which ones would thrive in 80% humidity and about 78*F. If anyone could provide pictures of tanks, breeding stages, frogs, plants, etc. it would be very helpful. Thanks in advance

I’ve researched PDFs as I intend to get them. I can tell this idea of yours is wrong for all sorts of reasons.

From putting species together, to tank size.

Go to dendroboard and you’ll learn exactly how wrong you are.