Brachypelma sp (hybrid)

[SkyeSpider]

Thought I'd post some more photos of my Brachypelma hybrid. I've managed to sex it as a female. She's VERY quick to bite, though.

After several hours of searching, I've PROBABLY figured the two species she is a cross of. My first inclination appears to be close. B. emilia and B. vagans was my original guess. After looking closer, I've come to think it's B. emilia and B. angustum (note the bluish tone to the legs).

Due to the attitude (I don't like tarantulas that bite my clamps when I'm doing cage mantience), I'm thinking of selling her. We'll see.

Anyway, enjoy the photos

-Bryan

 

[SkyeSpider]

Another photo

 

[RazorRipley]

About how big is your B. Hybrid there? doesnt look much like my runaaui or my vagans, so it has me curious. if looking to sell it, hit me up

 

[Telson]

I'd like to know more about this hybridization stuff... I've seen a few posts about hybrids recently and never knew it was even possible. I thought that specific species were incapable of breeding with anything other that its own kind. Is this possible with any mixed pair of similar species? For instance, could a G.pulchra be cross bred with a G.rosea, an A.avic with an A.versicolor, or what? I assume it's completely impossible to cross (as an example) an A.seemani with a B.emilia, right? Everything I've ever seen or read indicated that if a male of another species aproached a female B.smithi for example, she'd just drive him off or eat him. I did see on TV recently a wandering male try to mate with a immature fem of another species, but if I recall correctly, she wasn't having it and drove him off.

I know hybridization is common in fish breeding, resulting in parrot fish, various types of fancy goldfish, etc.... Has there been any research or effort to experiment with cross breeding Ts?

 

[SkyeSpider]

Originally posted by Telson
I know hybridization is common in fish breeding, resulting in parrot fish, various types of fancy goldfish, etc.... Has there been any research or effort to experiment with cross breeding Ts?

Cross breeding tarantulas will do nothing but get you in trouble.

-Bryan

 

[SkyeSpider]

Originally posted by RazorRipley
About how big is your B. Hybrid there?

About 3" in legspan.

-Bryan

 

[TheDon]

Ya Hybridizing would do nothing but confuse the whole situation. I have read many times about hybridizing, if you are going to do it dont distribute the slings keep them all or only give some to a close friend who isnt going to distribute them. Also I have read that hybrids are never as nice as the originals. On a little video I saw on the net they mated a B. Smithi and B. Boehmi and it looked pretty nice. It looked more like the Boehmi except that the legs were redder than normal.

peace

TheDon


here is the link to the video with the hybrid
http://www.exn.ca/video/?Video=exn20010814-tarantula.asx
hope it works

oh and I have seen this on a price list
Mexican Fantasy
(Brachypelma pallidum x vagans) * CB 1/3" $9

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Telson
I know hybridization is common in fish breeding, resulting in parrot fish, various types of fancy goldfish, etc.... Has there been any research or effort to experiment with cross breeding Ts?

It is very common in Europe, and while I don't approve, I'll at least give the nod to say the European hobby is more advanced than the Americas by far in regards to actively breeding and knowing what they're breeding - and a large part of that is because they seem to use scientific names far more regularly than in the U.S.

Within genera cross breeds are often doable and are done by some advanced hobbyists to clear up true species versus color morph or subspecies status (these folks also often destroy every body but their personal specimens in good conscience). They are done by idiots looking for that fast buck too often, though, as well.

The big bugaboo to me is simply generation times. Why put that amount of effort into breeding things that will be sterile themselves in the best case, or, in the worst case, fertile because they really were just subspecies or color morphs and risk diluting true breeds if they wind up in the hand of someone who doesn't know what they have.

Most American hybrids seem to be the result of simple laziness, e.g. that "Mexican Fantasy" the Don mentions. Who the heck would cross a boehmi with a pallidum if they had a real choice?

 

[Nixy]

Agreed Code. I feel more efforts to gain more True species into the hobby for breeding in captivity is a better use of energy then diluting the species we have. The world isn't getting prettier out there and the more genera/species the hobby has going in captive the better. We just do not Know how many will be around in the wild in a few years.
But I feel it would be good for conservationists to stop beating the heads of hobbiest groups and maybe put some of that energy into Getting some more critters in the hands of experienced breeders and collectors. Keep the species on the planet.
Hybridizing only promotes more bad press for the hobby. Why would we be trusted with More rare and possably endangered species if the bloodlines are mucked up at the first oppertunity by people that just want to see what they can get if they mix the apples and oranges?

 

[Lopez]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
Within genera cross breeds are often doable and are done by some advanced hobbyists to clear up true species versus color morph or subspecies status (these folks also often destroy every body but their personal specimens in good conscience). They are done by idiots looking for that fast buck too often, though, as well.

Volker has been privately cross-breeding several Asian species to try and sort out the big mess they're in. I'm not sure if the same was done for Pterinochilus murinus....I'll have to ask Richard Gallon.

I can't agree with hybridisation for the hobby - we findit tricky enough identifying existing species without hybrids confusing the issue.

Oh, and I think you're right about Germany being a leading country in Theraphosids, or even Europe as a whole. Many Americans will not even consider this as being possibly true unfortunately. All to often on American forums I see people wanting "Good old All - American bred T's" not "some European bred thing". It's a somewhat blinkered approach I think.

Not slating the American hobbyist here, it's just an observation

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Lopez
Oh, and I think you're right about Germany being a leading country in Theraphosids, or even Europe as a whole. Many Americans will not even consider this as being possibly true unfortunately. All to often on American forums I see people wanting "Good old All - American bred T's" not "some European bred thing". It's a somewhat blinkered approach I think.

Not slating the American hobbyist here, it's just an observation

It's an accurate one, however. While I think America leads the race in mail-order dealers, as far as large scale breeding goes, we're in our infancy next to Germany. A *lot* of our CB slings are from European breeders to the point that I can't understand why anyone would think there's anything superior about American breeding as of yet. Most Brachys, harder to breed Grammostola, Nhandus, many Pokies, rarer Avics, etc. are almost all imported from Europe. When the American hobby gets enough CB breeding going to compete with Europe maybe we can see some of them $15 Pokies

EDIT: We're so much in our infancy that I often find myself wondering just what it would take to supplant the European import market, or if its even doable at this point? But if it is doable, that would be the trick for people trying to figure out how to make a living selling spiders in this country - just need to find a way to generate $4000 wholesale in slings a month

 

[Lopez]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
It's an accurate one, however. While I think America leads the race in mail-order dealers, as far as large scale breeding goes, we're in our infancy next to Germany. A *lot* of our CB slings are from European breeders to the point that I can't understand why anyone would think there's anything superior about American breeding as of yet. Most Brachys, harder to breed Grammostola, Nhandus, many Pokies, rarer Avics, etc. are almost all imported from Europe. When the American hobby gets enough CB breeding going to compete with Europe maybe we can see some of them $15 Pokies

I'll agree with you there (must stop doing that ) - your "Arachnodealer" system of established online "Spider Shops" is unlike anything I've seen in Europe. Generally in Europe we have "cottage industry" dealers, or private breeders.This keeps prices low, but means you have to hunt around to find the T's you want - which means bulk ordering can be pricey because you need to use several different breeders, which increases the postage a fair bit.

Recently I've arranged deals to the UK from Germany, Hong Kong and Holland. Postage (2-3 days) has been anywhere from £5 - £18 ($8 - $28)

WRT Poecilotheria prices - Just got 3x P ornata (4cm) for €20 ($22) and 3x P regalis for (4cm) for €15 ($16)
That's damn good value! Many European breeders offer reductions for bulk buying in this way. Ray Gabriel sold Thrixopelma pruriens at the BTS show - 5 for £1! ($1.56)

On the other hand, you get WC G rosea and H sp. "longipendum" etc for ridiculous amounts like $5 where in the UK even Rosies go for at least £15 ($24) I've never understood that......

Sorry, appears we've dragged ourselves a tad off-topic

 

[SkyeSpider]

Originally posted by Lopez
I'll agree with you there (must stop doing that ) - your "Arachnodealer" system of established online "Spider Shops" is unlike anything I've seen in Europe. Generally in Europe we have "cottage industry" dealers, or private breeders.This keeps prices low, but means you have to hunt around to find the T's you want - which means bulk ordering can be pricey because you need to use several different breeders, which increases the postage a fair bit.

This reminds me:
I'm looking for some specific tarantulas only common in Europe (not established in the US at all!). If anyone over there can find them for me, and ship them over here, I'll gladly make it worth your trouble. PM if you can.

-Bryan

 

[SkyeSpider]

Originally posted by monantony
Bryan, what led you to believe your brachy was a hybrid? Was it sold as one? If it s only the triangular marking, alot of variation can occur within a species....

I saw her at the Daytona reptile show. I asked the dealer if it was a hybrid of emilia and vagans. He said it was a hybrid, but he wasn't certain of the species. He also said I was PROBABLY right on the species guess (hence the two I listed above). She was represented as a hybrid, so no worries

-Bryan