Blown in cellulose insulation containing boric acid - safe for T’s?

[Mirandarachnid]

Hey all.

I am very hot.

Blown in cellulose insulation looks to be a cost effective solution, however I’m concerned about the boric acid (added as a fire retardant and pest control measure). We would do our best to seal ceiling penetrations, but I’m sure some amount of dust is unavoidable. I’m not sure if I would have someone willing to temporarily house all of my critters while blowing it in and cleaning up. I currently have tarantulas, scorpions, ants, isopods, and feeders. As far as vertebrates: cat, corn snake, guinea pigs.

If anyone has experience with this or input (other than speculation) I would very much appreciate it.

 

[TheraMygale]

After what just happened to a recent member, for the installation, i would rehouse and wait a while.

Boric acid can and will kill spiders. The dust of it.

This is an interesting read.

Draft screening assessment boric acid, its salts, and its precursors - Canada.ca

Information on Environment and Climate Change Canada's evaluating existing substances.

www.canada.ca

The chem specialists will add to this.

I think that once a product is installed properly, and all is sealed, the releasement of its dust should not be as problematic as the first days/week.

It is found in nature and some amphibians do consume it.

For many inverts, they must come in contact with it. Get it on themselves, ingest it. Insecticides that use this, include it in baiting stations.

Many people do not know some forms of it are used in “bio” dishsoap and laundry, in its borax form.

Kids use it to make slime mold. Then need to wash their hands after using it.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

After what just happened to a recent member, for the installation, i would rehouse and wait a while.

Boric acid can and will kill spiders. The dust of it.

This is an interesting read.

Draft screening assessment boric acid, its salts, and its precursors - Canada.ca

Information on Environment and Climate Change Canada's evaluating existing substances.

www.canada.ca

The chem specialists will add this.

I think that once a product is installed properly, and all is sealed, the releasement of its dust should not be as problematic as the first days/week.

It is found in nature and some amphibians do consume it.

For many inverts, they must come in contact with it. Get it on themselves, ingest it.

I tried searching for anything regarding that type of insulation on here, but I didn’t find anything. Would you mind linking the thread?

and thank you I’ll give that a read.

 

[TheraMygale]

What happened to the other member was because of fumigation. I will link it anyways. But his situation is different. However, it sheds light on how volatile substances and dust can be.

His tarantulas were in another area completely. Personaly, unless i would have a guarantee from the people doing the installation, i would not risk it. Even if it could be safe.

If you have a tarantula room, you have a lot. You love them and would be pissed off is something like this happened.

I would also recommend getting insurance.

All of my Ts died

The fumigation happened and they somehow died, they were in a laundry room that wasn't fumigated and was detached from the house even had a dog in it and somehow they all died, thing was that the fumigation was only a few hours I lost my LP sling, my b boehmei, my T albo and my T vagans Don't...

arachnoboards.com

Using Boric Acid to kill Ants in the Tarantula Room

Hi All, I've been having a bit of an ant problem in the room where I keep my T's. I've barely got it under control enough to keep my T's safe (I've already had a MM P. murinus get destroyed by the little terrorists :( ) by putting vasaline around the edges of every shelf that has tarantulas...

arachnoboards.com

Is borax bad for tarantula

Has anyone use borax powder inside their tarantula room to get rid of the ant or house roach? Are they bad for tarantula, if I’m just gonna use it under the shelves? Thank you in advance :) I found this thread also...

arachnoboards.com

Interesting facts on exposure

Boric Acid Technical Fact Sheet

.

 

[viper69]

Sounds risky to me

 

[Wolf135]

It doesn't seem worth the risk, you and your animals could be exposed to high amounts

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Hmm I’m not sure how safe it is , reading that. @HooahArmy do you have any idea on this stuff ?

 

[Kada]

https://www.fishersci.com/msds?productName=AC315181000

When in doubt, don't use it. It is an insecticide used commonly in baits (meaning ingestion). but dust lands everywhere, including water, feeders enclosures etc. It's safer than many poisons, but not without risks. Including to humans, so far as the safety sheets claim.

 

[The Snark]

Blown cellulose is 25% fire retardant, boric acid or sodium borate, borax, and/or ammonium sulfate. As @TheraMygalo mentioned, boric acid is a toxin, borax and ammonium sulfate respiratory irritants. When installing that blown insulation OSHA requires a particulate respirator. They are among the listed chemicals where FDs are required to use SCBAs in it's presence per NFPA.
Let the dust settle and give everything a good dusting off.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

We’ll be doing the project ourselves. It’s way too simple a job for me to justify paying for labor.

The plan is to seal penetrations from inside the attic with expanding foam, then as an added safety measure I would tape plastic over light fixtures. Run the fan in our A/C to put positive pressure on the line to avoid getting any dust into that (if there are any holes in the duct, which I don’t think there are). The PPE would probably be the same for cellulose or fiberglass.

I’ll do some more poking around and I’ll update this thread so the info is available for anyone else who may be looking into it.

Thanks for the responses!

 

[HooahArmy]

Pardon the late response... currently sweaty, toasted, and gritty in a 7-day-a-week military course, it's HooahArmy!!!

Ladies and gentlemen! Thank you very much for blowing the conch and summoning me! Boric acid and borax-related products are common insecticides that can and will kill spiders, much like the verdict seen among our very helpful other posters. If the insulation is a must, I would recommend removing all critters during the install and letting the area air for anywhere up to a month or even longer prior to returning any critters. The fumes of borax-related products--boric acid--is intensely toxic to inverts, and since there is no way to measure exactly how much is being released following the install, one's best bet would be to play it safe and keep the critters as safe as possible. Links to articles that I've been looking at have already been added (thanks TheraMygalo!) and I second every AB member that has been voicing concern.
To sum it up, even a small amount of boric acid airborne can be harmful to inverts. It is difficult to determine concentration by smelling for it alone, so it's best to wait it out before adding critters for as long as one can to ensure maximum safety. After returning any inverts, keep an eye on them almosy hourly for the first few days and remove them at once if any agitation, lethargy, or other odd behaviors are spotted--scoot them out if you see! Adjustments to our homes are inevitable, yet fortunately for us, most invert enclosures are moveable and the critters themselves very hardy if they need to be placed in an alternative location for a while.