Black Widow Preying on Crabs? (Latrodectus variolus)

TreesTexas

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Hello! I was fortunate to come across this incredible forum and looking forward to learning from this community.

I wanted to see whether any of the experts here had any insight into a recent behavior I observed in the field in south Texas -- a Northern Black Widow (Latrodectus variolus) that had trapped and was feeding on a crab (tribe Minucini -- American Broad-front Fiddler Crabs).

I have read that Latrodectus venom contains α-latrocrustotoxin, which is toxic to crustaceans, but I haven't found anything in my (admittedly amateurish) research online indicating why or how this particular venom is useful. Does anyone know why it evolved the capacity to produce this very specific venom? Is anyone aware of similar observations documented elsewhere of predation on crabs or other crustaceans?

Some context:
- The black widow had built its web in the enclosed corner of a (now dry) concrete pool to collect rainwater for cattle. The spot with the web is about 2.5 feet deep, with sheer sides that would have made it impossible for the crab to exit once it fell in.
- This is ~2 miles from the Gulf Coast and within 100 feet of a large ephemeral pool (I think the water is brackish)
- The crab in the web was wrapped and there was a second crab in the leaf litter below (clearly wrapped and having been drained before removal from the web) so this appears to be more than a one off event.

(For more info see the iNaturalist observation here: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/187538741)
 

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The Snark

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@Widowman10 Was involved in that research and posted some data on it. That latrotoxin one of seven that targets specific animals. Not sure how active he is any more but that's a good place to start in your research.
 

TreesTexas

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@Widowman10 Was involved in that research and posted some data on it. That latrotoxin one of seven that targets specific animals. Not sure how active he is any more but that's a good place to start in your research.
Thank you -- hopefully he is still around and interested in his thoughts :)
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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Hello! I was fortunate to come across this incredible forum and looking forward to learning from this community.

I wanted to see whether any of the experts here had any insight into a recent behavior I observed in the field in south Texas -- a Northern Black Widow (Latrodectus variolus) that had trapped and was feeding on a crab (tribe Minucini -- American Broad-front Fiddler Crabs).

I have read that Latrodectus venom contains α-latrocrustotoxin, which is toxic to crustaceans, but I haven't found anything in my (admittedly amateurish) research online indicating why or how this particular venom is useful. Does anyone know why it evolved the capacity to produce this very specific venom? Is anyone aware of similar observations documented elsewhere of predation on crabs or other crustaceans?

Some context:
- The black widow had built its web in the enclosed corner of a (now dry) concrete pool to collect rainwater for cattle. The spot with the web is about 2.5 feet deep, with sheer sides that would have made it impossible for the crab to exit once it fell in.
- This is ~2 miles from the Gulf Coast and within 100 feet of a large ephemeral pool (I think the water is brackish)
- The crab in the web was wrapped and there was a second crab in the leaf litter below (clearly wrapped and having been drained before removal from the web) so this appears to be more than a one off event.

(For more info see the iNaturalist observation here: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/187538741)
Very interesting behavior! I had no clue they could prey on crabs 🦀!!!
 

DustyD

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Widowman10 was last on/last seen May 31 of this year. Maybe his ears are burning and will respond.
 

SpookySpooder

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Does anyone know why it evolved the capacity to produce this very specific venom? Is anyone aware of similar observations documented elsewhere of predation on crabs or other crustaceans?
My uneducated guess is their ancestors evolved it for use against their rivals, sea spiders. (joke)

Their toxin has been tested on other crustaceans, specifically crayfish. I don't believe I've heard of them going after lobsters.


 

The Snark

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Biollantefan54

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I don’t know if this is true but I always assumed it was just tailored towards isopods since that’s the most common crustacean they’d come cross
 

The Snark

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With over 10,000 species of isopods identified today, and their existence dated back 300 million years, I'll let you calculate the probability of variations on the theme that the venom could potentially target. And of course we are ignoring other similar crustaceans that have since gone extinct from environments that no longer exist.
 
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catboyeuthanasia

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Apparently their vemon causes extra calcium to flow into crayfish muscles, causing them to contract and stay contracted. Will send crappy drawing of science figures soon :smirk:
 

The Snark

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Apparently their vemon causes extra calcium to flow into crayfish muscles, causing them to contract and stay contracted. Will send crappy drawing of science figures soon :smirk:
Essentially it induces a condition commonly occurring in elderly people where a blocker is used as the therapeutic treatment.
 
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