Best Turtle?

[Kasha]

My husband has been wanting a turtle since he was kid and I am thinking about finally getting him one. But as I research I keep reading articles that seem to discourage people from keeping turtles at all.
I am looking for a species that prefers to stay dry as opposed to semi-aquatic. Are box turtles the only ones? I am unfamiliar with species or care and would like a direction for research.
Is there a species that thrives in captivity? One that does not require huge outdoor pens or indoor habitats that are super large?
I am prepared for a large habitat, but some of these care sheets are just crazy. I am fully prepared to walk away from this idea if I cannot provide a decent home for one, but I can't seem to find any info that does help me understand what I am getting into.
Any one know of a good species or a good info site?

 

[Stylopidae]

How about one of those teenage mutant ninja ones?


All kidding aside, in my old marine bio classroom we had a box turtle in what amounted to a 15 to 20 gallon (bordering on 15, it was a taller pentagonal tank) tank with a decent sized waterdish. We took it out to feed it live food and I can't ever remember if we fed it any sort of pellet or vegtable matter. It seemed happy and seemed to like it's tank.

 

[Kasha]

LOL! A mutant one would fit right in here!

My brother had a turtle when we were kids, had it for years, and kept it in a giant carboard box in the living room. We bought a new box like once a month or something...when the paper inside got icky. But that one did fine and lived until our sister left the window near him cracked over night (in Alaska) and froze the poor thing. My brother was crushed and never recovered.

I wonder why all the site on care discourage keeping them. They make is sound positively criminal to have them unless you can keep them outside. I live in Alaska, so outside is not a good idea. Maybe in summer, for a bit.

What do you think is a good sized enclosure?

EDIT:
Ok, I am looking for a tortoise! I totally forgot they are different. I need to do some serious research before I doom one of these poor souls to my ignorant love.

 

[Tleilaxu]

I think the Russian tortise and the eastern box turtles will be your best bet. If you want a really intereactive tortise a madagascar radiated torties would also be a good choice if you can afford it. As your finding out taking in a tortise or turtle is a major undertaking, be prepared to leave it in your will for your kids or something as it most likely will live longer than you.

MAKE SURE you get full spectrum lighting(Make sure it emits UVA and UVB rays) and a good heat bulb to.

 

[Galapoheros]

Box turtles are great! DO NOT LISTEN TO INSTITUTIONAL PROP about how fragile they are or diseases they carry. They think they can control what you think. And allot of times 'they' do. They manipulate instead of tell the truth because they don't think the truth is good enough to protect the turtles and the truth doesn't feed their righteousness either. I think they should be commercially breed. They are as hardy as ever! ....and have diff personalities. Some are real shy and some are crazy extroverts. I had one that loved cheese. Every time it saw something orange, it would try to eat it....they aren't colored blind! The one that love cheese would try to eat an orange couch pillow when I was a kid. That thing was insane. I know both the three toed and the ornate box are great turtles to keep. I don't have exp with the eastern. You could hibernate these boxes in the garage in moist coco fiber.

 

[SoupyC]

You say they should be commercially bred, are they not easily available?

 

[Kasha]

Thanks for all the input!
I am glad to hear that the box turtles are not as delicate or needy as they make them sound! I was horrified when I read what they needed. One site stated that a baby (mere inches long) would require at a MINIMUM a 40 gallon tank. Made me think a turtle was not a good plan.
Now I am feeling better about a tortoise/turtle and I think that he is going to be thrilled. I am going to get the skeleton enclosure set up, tank, UV lights, heat lamp, food/water dish (generic needs) and then when he pick ones out I will fill in the substrate, food, special needs etc.
WEEEEEE!!! A new baby!

 

[Galapoheros]

You say they should be commercially bred, are they not easily available?

I don't see them for sale very often but I do occasionally.
I've read about them being exported in mass in horrible conditions. 100's of them stacked on top of each other in big crates in inhumane conditions because they DO make such good animals to keep. So "they" try to make people believe "they aren't good animals to keep" to protect the animals from this mistreatment and over collecting. The truth is that they are probably the best turtle to keep. That's why they are in demand! That is the strategy...to lie, to protect. It's like telling overweight people chocolate tastes bad (so they won't gain more weight), but that's not the truth, for most people anyway. Bottom line is that the discouragement is intended to protect them. Massive white lies about their hardiness. Guess I'm not helping their mission. But that's the way I see it.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

They think they can control what you think. And allot of times 'they' do. They manipulate instead of tell the truth because they don't think the truth is good enough to protect the turtles and the truth doesn't feed their righteousness either.

...we need a :tinfoil: emote. Sorry, but you gotta realize how this stuff sounds.

 

[Galapoheros]

...we need a :tinfoil: emote. Sorry, but you gotta realize how this stuff sounds.

Haha, your right, it did. I was really getting into it !

 

[Wade]

Since about 80% of my job involves turtles, I feel I should comment...

Much of the dicouragement your read is an attempt to keep people from getting box turtles as pets on a casual basis. For those who already keep reptiles, the requirements are not difficult to meet, but the average person, who happens to find one crossing the road, doesn't know what they're in for when they pick one up. UV lights can be quite expsive, and many people aren't willing to take the time to research and prepare a proper diet.

I work in a nature center, and I can't tell you how many times I've had people dump underweight (or grossly overweight) box turtles they they were trying to keep at our door. The lucky ones are those that were recently collected and only need a bit of attention to bring back, but there have been some real horrors. Turtles with severely curled shells (resulting from poor diet and inadequate lighting), and individuals that are skeletally thin and actually feel hollow when you pick them up. One I remember in particular was raised in water and fed raw hamburger. This animal shell was literally soft and could be compressed when you pressed on it. The bones in its' beak were so undeveloped it was curled inward and could barely feed on it's own. It was a classic case of someone refusing to do the slightest bit of research to find out how to care for it or even find out what kind of turtle it was.

Box turtles can make good pets IF you do your research beforehand. They do require more care than your typical pet snake, and their dietary needs are more complicated. As omnivores, they need a certain amount of protein in the diet, yet too much can lead to growth problems, disfigured shells, and even kidney failure. Fortunately there is at least one really good commercial diet by Advanced Nutrition Support, available from rocksolidherpetoculture.com It is shiped dry and you add water. We've been using it as an exclusive diet here at the nature center for both box and wood turtles and can't say enough good things about it. It was developed by a reptile vet. The box and wood turtle diet costs $10 a pound, which goes a long way when hydrated. Be sure to order the dehydrated food, they also offer fresh green mixes but they ar a lot more expensive and do not have the shelf life.

Box turtles can be raised indoors, but if it's possible to keep the outdoors at least sometimes it'd be helpful. They also require a large, shallow water bowl. They will crawl into this and defecate in it almost daily, so you'll be washing and refilling it often.

Box turtles are not difficult to breed, but because of a federal ban on selling turtles under 4" in length (this is a federal rgulation supposedly put in place to control samonella) there are not many people breeding them on purpose. Wild poulations are dwindling in most of the country, and massive collections for the pet trade is one of the culprits (development and road mortality are the other ones). Many states protect box turtles to some degree, even if it's just a blacket regulation on all native species. For example, here in Virginia, it is illegal to buy or sell any native reptile except for certain species of snakes (which still require a permit). It is legal to collect one and keep it here, but it cannot be sold or taken out of the state.

Wade

 

[Kasha]

I am steering away from a box turtle for now. I don't believe I can provide the "outdoor" time it requires. Even in summer, the temp would probably be to chilly for them.
A tortoise is still a possibilty as they seem a bit more hardy as far as temp goes. I am going to do some more research. The hubby may have to wait until we move to a warmer climate for his shelled baby.
Thanks again for all the input! It helps to hear it from people who have had exp. in caring for these critters!

 

[Wade]

They don't require outdoor habitats, we don't provide that in the nature center and some of ours have been in captivity 12 years plus. It is a lot easier, however!

Are you avaoiding aquatic turtles because you're assuming they're harder? If you get the right species, they can actually be easier IME. The commonly kept red-ears and it's relatives are a pain because they get large and are very active and messy, but there are smaller ones that make great pets.

Personally, I always reccomend mud and musk turtles as being great pets. Most US species don't get more than 5" or so long (especially the musks) and two can live comfortably in a 20 long aquarium (females, males are quite agressive with each other and with females, so I recomend keeping them individually or with large groups of females). They are not active swimmers, but instead walk around the bottom of the water. They only need 4 or 5 inches of water which can be filtered with an aquarium filter. They are predatory and love earthworms and take pellet diets like Reptomin. They should be provided with UV light, but they are low baskers so it need not be intense. I provide a small basking area, but hey rarely use it if the water is kept warm.

Easiest turtles to keep IMO, much easier than box turtles or tortoises. The only reason they're not popular is that they are not colorful.

Russian tortoises are a nice size, but recent imports are often heavily parastised. Long term captives of CB are definately preferable.

Wade

 

[Kasha]

Yep, I was assuming the aquatic ones were harder to keep. For a first timer anyway. I can't seem to find a non-biased info site on care for them. They all seem to stress that these species require vast amounts of space. But a 20 gallon is do-able for us.

Have you ever kept them in the larger rubbermaid tubs? They sell some large ones and I was thinking I could create a pool on one side and a land area on the other. Any problems that I am not predicting? I planned on buying a clip on heat lamp and having the hubby build a partial lid with fixtures for the longer UV lights (they only come in flouresent right?). Does that sound suitable?

Substrate? I get mixed signals on that as well. Everything from dirt, sand, even rabbit food. Which is best?

Food seems to be at least similiar on all the sites, so I think I got it figured out.

Thanks Wade!

 

[arachnocat]

Box turtles are great

This is my box turtle Touche. I adopted him from my friends parents about a year ago. He had been her brothers pet but he got tired of him and her parents kept him in a little tupperware box in a dark laundary room for years. He got attacked by a rat at one point and it chewed off part of his tail and a toe. He was really shy when I first got him and would hiss if anyone got near and stay under his log. I put him in a large glass tank that's about 3' by 2'. I use potting soil for substrate, it's about 6" deep because he likes to dig. I don't have any artificial light right now, but his tank is next to a window so he gets sun all day. He is so much happier now. He likes to run around on the floor and hunt mealworms and he will come up to you when you call him.
I found the same information when I was reading about box turtles online. They made it seem like animal abuse if you kept a turtle in a tank. I do plan on keeping him outside one day when I have a yard but for now he seems content indoors.

 

[Kasha]

That is one fine looking turtle! He looks like he is happy being held for the camera!

Thanks all! I think I am going to take a trip to the local pet place and see what they have. I am pretty sure they have some box turtles I can scope out. I may surprise him after all!

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I don't have any artificial light right now, but his tank is next to a window so he gets sun all day.

Just so you know, this is useless for meeting any UV needs--the glass in windowpanes blocks all the stuff they need.

 

[Wade]

Yep, I was assuming the aquatic ones were harder to keep. For a first timer anyway. I can't seem to find a non-biased info site on care for them. They all seem to stress that these species require vast amounts of space. But a 20 gallon is do-able for us.

Have you ever kept them in the larger rubbermaid tubs? They sell some large ones and I was thinking I could create a pool on one side and a land area on the other. Any problems that I am not predicting? I planned on buying a clip on heat lamp and having the hubby build a partial lid with fixtures for the longer UV lights (they only come in flouresent right?). Does that sound suitable?

Substrate? I get mixed signals on that as well. Everything from dirt, sand, even rabbit food. Which is best?

Food seems to be at least similiar on all the sites, so I think I got it figured out.

Thanks Wade!

One great (and cheap!) turtle container are the concrete/mortar mixing pans available from home improvement stores. They usually have a couple of sizes. These are deep enough to keep most smaller turtles in. They're great for box turtles and small tortoises, and even small aquatic turtles.

For box turtles, I've used cypress mulch, coconut fiber mixed with sand and other moisture-retaining materials as substrates.

Were you thinking of a "pool" for the box turtles? Really, you want to go with some type of bowl or dish. They foul it so often you want to be able to clean and disinfect it easily. Thatll be hard to do with some type of integrated pool The large plastic plant saucers (the heavier ones used to set potted plants on) make great water dishes for land turtles. Also, glass pie pans.

If you're leaning towards the mud and musk turtles, they don't need much of a land area at all, they just need what we call a "haul out", a place where the turtle can get out of the water and bask. A rock or plastic log will do.

Remember, tortoises are TOTALLY different from box turtles in care (for starters, they are herbivores), they are not related to each other (box turtles are more closely related to aquatic turtles than they are to tortoises). I can't advise you on much regarding tortoises because I've never kept one. I have heard of tortoise keepers using alfalfa pellets as substrate because the tortoise can eat it, but others have said it will mold badly unless kept bone dry.


Wade

 

[Kasha]

wow..definetly got some work left. I am glad the box turtle does not need a pool!! I was having a hard time trying to get my head around that one.
I know the hubby does not want a water turtle, so this is a big plus in the box turtle category.
Thanks again!