Ball Pythons- Semi-arboreal

[viper69]

I've been keeping BPs for most of my life. However, I never knew many BP owners (there was no internet), and at shows I didn't discuss them. However every so often I'd pop into a pet store, and I'd see young BPs (maybe 1 ft long, slightly less, slightly more) up along the top edge of the tanks. And I thought, "are they up in the trees in the wild at some point?.

Fast forward today, checking out the net for some herp products, and stumbled by accident on this peer-reviewed paper from 1998. The power of the internet.

Read on BP owners.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/11250009809386744

 

[Poonjab]

My male (banana ball) doesn’t have a ton of height, However I set him up with some extra height knowing he’d take full advantage of it. Glad to know from a husbandry standpoint my assumption wasnt based on just dumb luck. At night he’ll come out of his hide/hot spot and chill up on his limb.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

On the BP forum it seems to be accepted that climbing is natural, common and opportunities should be provided for it (although much common behavior is likely an artifact of captivity, so some climbing is just looking for an escape route). Perusing threads there by date makes it apparent that acceptance of this has increased over the last ten years or so.

I'm guessing that among some groups of keepers, though, the categorization as 'terrestrial' is taken as literal and complete description. This happens with "terrestrial" dart frogs all the time, to the frogs' detriment (all are climbers, some to tens of meters).

 

[Sterls]

I've been reading more on them being semi-arboreal lately as well. Interesting, mine have always been good climbers but I never put 2 and 2 together I guess. Looking ahead to their next enclosures, I'm opting to give them some extra height and see what they do with it.

 

[viper69]

My male (banana ball) doesn’t have a ton of height, However I set him up with some extra height knowing he’d take full advantage of it. Glad to know from a husbandry standpoint my assumption wasnt based on just dumb luck. At night he’ll come out of his hide/hot spot and chill up on his limb.

I gave my pied some branches to climb on early on to see if he'd use them, and he does. But back them I didn't have knowledge of this paper. Nice to see my observations weren't due to some casual BPs looking to escape (while that may be the case too at times).

On the BP forum it seems to be accepted that climbing is natural, common and opportunities should be provided for it (although much common behavior is likely an artifact of captivity, so some climbing is just looking for an escape route). Perusing threads there by date makes it apparent that acceptance of this has increased over the last ten years or so.

I'm guessing that among some groups of keepers, though, the categorization as 'terrestrial' is taken as literal and complete description. This happens with "terrestrial" dart frogs all the time, to the frogs' detriment (all are climbers, some to tens of meters).

I would think so, it's a good forum, I check in every so often. I agree it's taken as literal. Of course when you have racks of BPs, there's no opportunity to climb. I always take my snakes out of of their homes to give them more climbing, esp my Hog Island Boa. I put her on a chair and I set up some boxes for her to crawl around and among. She seems to enjoy this wooden chair I have the most. She'll climb up the lamps as well. My ball, eh he's not as good a climber at that haha. One time I let him try it, my hands were directly below him, and he started to slide down.

Interesting what you wrote about darts. I haven't gotten into them YET, but I have always wanted to. Tens of meters? wow, that's interesting, documented in the wild I take it during species surveys perhaps? I would not have thought they would go so high up.

@Frogdaddy Are your darts climbing too?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Interesting what you wrote about darts. I haven't gotten into them YET, but I have always wanted to. Tens of meters? wow, that's interesting, documented in the wild I take it during species surveys perhaps? I would not have thought they would go so high up.

Yes, wild observations.

R. imitator to 6m: https://amphibiaweb.org/cgi/amphib_query?where-genus=Ranitomeya&where-species=imitator
O. pumilio 10m: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ern_Panama/links/57f24ce008ae91deaa58c301.pdf
(I've read to 60m for pumilio, but can't find documentation for that claim.)
D. tinctorius to 40m: https://www.oneillscrossing.com/2015/07/13/building-a-vivarium-for-d-tinctorius/ (link to PDF article provided in this tutorial).
D. auratus to 50m: https://www.dendrobates.org/dendrob...endrobatinae/dendrobates/dendrobates-auratus/

 

[Frogdaddy]

I gave my pied some branches to climb on early on to see if he'd use them, and he does. But back them I didn't have knowledge of this paper. Nice to see my observations weren't due to some casual BPs looking to escape (while that may be the case too at times).



I would think so, it's a good forum, I check in every so often. I agree it's taken as literal. Of course when you have racks of BPs, there's no opportunity to climb. I always take my snakes out of of their homes to give them more climbing, esp my Hog Island Boa. I put her on a chair and I set up some boxes for her to crawl around and among. She seems to enjoy this wooden chair I have the most. She'll climb up the lamps as well. My ball, eh he's not as good a climber at that haha. One time I let him try it, my hands were directly below him, and he started to slide down.

Interesting what you wrote about darts. I haven't gotten into them YET, but I have always wanted to. Tens of meters? wow, that's interesting, documented in the wild I take it during species surveys perhaps? I would not have thought they would go so high up.

@Frogdaddy Are your darts climbing too?

Absolutely. In captivity they climb over every vertical surface. Even the so calles terrestrial Dendrobates or Phyllobates which are heavier bodied frogs will climb to the upper reaches of their vivarium. They will use all of it. Though we tend to keep them in lower, terrestrial type enclosures, ie Exo-Terra 18x36x18.
Thumbnail frogs, Ranitomeya sp. are smaller, lighter and tend to climb higher in the wild. Those are kept in taller enclosures like an Exo-Terra 18x18x24. The thumbnails definitely climb higher possibly tens of meters, and terrestrial frogs may only climb to 10 meters or so.

 

[Poonjab]

I kinda want to get into dart frogs.

 

[Frogdaddy]

I kinda want to get into dart frogs.

If you enjoy setting up a T enclosure, setting up a dart frog vivarium is 10x more fun. Kind of like aquascaping a reef tank.

 

[viper69]

my parents are very very against having crickets because they had feeder crickets infest a previous house

Yes, wild observations.

R. imitator to 6m: https://amphibiaweb.org/cgi/amphib_query?where-genus=Ranitomeya&where-species=imitator
O. pumilio 10m: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ern_Panama/links/57f24ce008ae91deaa58c301.pdf
(I've read to 60m for pumilio, but can't find documentation for that claim.)
D. tinctorius to 40m: https://www.oneillscrossing.com/2015/07/13/building-a-vivarium-for-d-tinctorius/ (link to PDF article provided in this tutorial).
D. auratus to 50m: https://www.dendrobates.org/dendrob...endrobatinae/dendrobates/dendrobates-auratus/

OH thanks a lot for the links and the literature links. I will certainly read them. As an outsider on darts, I had no idea on climbing. I knew in captivity some species did climb.

Absolutely. In captivity they climb over every vertical surface. Even the so calles terrestrial Dendrobates or Phyllobates which are heavier bodied frogs will climb to the upper reaches of their vivarium. They will use all of it. Though we tend to keep them in lower, terrestrial type enclosures, ie Exo-Terra 18x36x18.
Thumbnail frogs, Ranitomeya sp. are smaller, lighter and tend to climb higher in the wild. Those are kept in taller enclosures like an Exo-Terra 18x18x24. The thumbnails definitely climb higher possibly tens of meters, and terrestrial frogs may only climb to 10 meters or so.

Thanks a lot. As I said above, this is news to me. Didn't think Dendro nor Phyllobates would climb. I've seen them in person at shows, and the thumbnails- big difference in size.

Very interesting guys, thanks a lot!!

 

[Poonjab]

If you enjoy setting up a T enclosure, setting up a dart frog vivarium is 10x more fun. Kind of like aquascaping a reef tank.

I think this is part of the appeal for me. Ive seen some enclosures that are amazing. And as a kid I’ve always been fascinated with PDF’s

 

[LadyVonChimp]

I've been keeping BPs for most of my life. However, I never knew many BP owners (there was no internet), and at shows I didn't discuss them. However every so often I'd pop into a pet store, and I'd see young BPs (maybe 1 ft long, slightly less, slightly more) up along the top edge of the tanks. And I thought, "are they up in the trees in the wild at some point?.

Fast forward today, checking out the net for some herp products, and stumbled by accident on this peer-reviewed paper from 1998. The power of the internet.

Read on BP owners.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/11250009809386744

Interesting! My female doesn't look to climb (not that I've seen at least) even though I do provide her with the option to if she wants.

I have heard casual anecdotes before regarding males and their habits with regards to climbing and diet of birds, though.

 

[RoachCoach]

I kinda want to get into dart frogs.

TCS has a ton of good vids on YouTube if you want info.