Avicularia urticans vs Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple"

[Austin S.]

This subject may be under discussion somewhere else here, so if that is the case, please direct me There as I cannot find it.

There has been much talk between these two "different" species. I would love for everyone to chime into this matter please, as I have an adult female of one of these and want to breed her. HOWEVER, if this cannot be 100% ID'd, I will not. I do not need to hear others discriminate this thread directing it in the direction of hybrid breeding. NOTHING has been done yet. I posted an add a while back looking for a MM Avicularia sp. "Peru purple", as I thought this is what I had. That add has been discontinued.

It has been brought to my attention, that these two species have been categorized as the same NOW.

This is a quote from a good friend of mine which I neglect to show his identity.
"The problem seems to be that over the years, Peruvian purple pink toe and the shortened, Peru purple pink toe have been used interchangeably with A. urticans. Later, when a new purple T surfaced, and was assigned the the name A. sp. Peru purple, hobbyists concluded it must be urticans."

Please take the time to read these discussions here: http://www.tarantulasus.com/archive/index.php/t-5787.html. I do not know the original location this female came from, but she came from a reputable dealer as a 3" Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple".

This is her a year and a half ago:


This photo was taken, which many have seen, a few weeks ago.


In the link above, look at Rick West's photo of urticans. Compare it to others. Then look at Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple".

You can see my frustration.

 

[NewAgePrimal]

I recieved my sp. "Peru purple" a year ago as a sling from a reputable dealer. I asked if they were the same as urticans. He said no, urticans slings are a different color. I now have some urticans slings which I acquired this summer and they do indeed have different coloration from sp. "Peru purple". If my phone wasn't a cheap piece of crap, I would post pictures... *grumbles*

---------- Post added 09-21-2014 at 05:10 PM ----------

BTW, your AF is stunning! mine is about3" or so and looks like the top photo.

 

[Austin S.]

One of my urtican slings

 

[NewAgePrimal]

How big is that one? Mine are still small. The largest just molted the other day. DLS of an inch or slightly more, but the legs are still pale.

 

[Austin S.]

This one is the same size as yours. It just molted last night. I'll have a new pic up in this thread in a few days. It is maybe 2" now

---------- Post added 09-21-2014 at 05:59 PM ----------

Heres something interesting.

Original/European urticans:
http://www.geocities.ws/Pentagon/1096/vogelspinnen/avicularia_urticans.html

American urticans/Peru Purple/European Amazonas purple:
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/index.php/Tarantulas/birdspiders_0849

---------- Post added 09-21-2014 at 06:02 PM ----------

[/COLOR]CEC states:

"I had some time to do some research and I found what I was told about urticans and Peru Purple being different species was correct and the notion that they are the same is also correct.

Let me explain, the original urticans in America and the urticans in Europe are different from Peru Purple. In fact, they aren't even purple: http://m.achtbeine.de.tl/urticans-Komplex.htm As you can see, here they are comparing urticans to other known brown Avics.

From my readings, I have not found any hard evidence that Peru Purple is the true urticans. Rick West's site has a purple Avic labeled urticans that resembles Peru Purple but that is not a valid confirmation of ID. It was mentioned in old threads that American dealers/sellers slapped the name urticans on Peru Purple to make them sell.

So my point being, the urticans and Peru Purple I bought here recently in the US are the same species. I want the original/European urticans! We may need to delete the urticans Fan Club I started and I should just post my American urticans/Peru Purple pics here because they are the same species no matter what I choose to call them.

Now you can see where all the confusion comes in.

Original/European urticans: http://www.geocities.ws/Pentagon/109..._urticans.html

American urticans/Peru Purple/European Amazonas purple: http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/i...rdspiders_0849

Which species is the true urticans, that's the question."

 

[NewAgePrimal]

That's very interesting. It was actually kinda fun to try and pick familiar words out of German. I couldn't view the other two links you posted unfortunately. Would it seem then that neither species sold in the U.S are true urticans? Or all three species in question? Either way, I will keep my urticans separate from my "Peru purple" until we get concrete evidence.

 

[ccamaleon3000]

Yes the original Urticans were sold here in the US. The last time I got 50 + slings 2007 from one of the members here (Ftorres) I still got pics of the female greenish tarantula. And Avicularia sp. Purple were change the name to Avicularia sp amazonica by breeders in Europe just to sell them whit highest price. The ones I dont see any more its the original amazonica ( change name of ''mananus'')

 

[BobGrill]

Great now I'm confused as to whether or not I have a Peru Purple or a true Amazonica.

 

[Austin S.]

lol this will be a nightmare thread for the Average Avicularia collector. Especially if theyre breeders. So after some talk back and forth between a friend and i, i belive my female actually is in all probibility Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple" like i originally thought, not urticans.

However, I would LOVE to see an adult female of each species that is in our hobby now. I believe fuzzyavics72 had one of his urticans?

 

[NewAgePrimal]

I think the best way to figure this out would be to have molts analyzed from several adult specimens of each species.

 

[Austin S.]

I agree. I have her most recent. Howveer i think this was her ultimate molt. So her next molt should be the one sent.

 

[ccamaleon3000]

Austin the one you asking about from the first pictures is a sp peru purple. Now about the original sp amazonica ( old name ) sp. Amazonica mananus ( new name) are blue greenish short red hairs all over the abdomen. Like I been telling all the importers but I guess no one wanna listen. They should ask for pics of the parents before buying and selling them. Real amazonicas doesn't have purple.

 

[fuzzyavics72]

I was told by ccamaleon about the urticans. That's why I knew Austin you had a urticans.

 

[Austin S.]

I just thought we decided its "Peru purple" fuzzy...

 

[BobGrill]

My amazonica is still rather small, but the hair on its body are much more of a bluish-green than purplish like in that image.

 

[Storm76]

Austin the one you asking about from the first pictures is a sp peru purple. Now about the original sp amazonica ( old name ) sp. Amazonica mananus ( new name) are blue greenish short red hairs all over the abdomen. Like I been telling all the importers but I guess no one wanna listen. They should ask for pics of the parents before buying and selling them. Real amazonicas doesn't have purple.

My A. sp. "Amazonica" (Manaus) female

Above female as ~2" - very prominent leg-banding:

My A. sp. "Amazonica" (Manaus) MM

A. sp. "Peru Purple"
CLICK


Those from Manaus are way more green/blue - the peru purple are excessively purple on the femurs and carapace in comparison. Besides, sp "amazonica" has somewhat prominent light-yellow (almost white /cream colored) leg-banding.

 

[BobGrill]

Judging by those pictures, I may have an actual amazonica then. Yay!

 

[Storm76]

Judging by those pictures, I may have an actual amazonica then. Yay!

I am pretty sure these two (A. sp. "Amazonica" / A. sp. "Peru Purple") are labled wrongly often, despite the easily visible differences. However, the "Manaus" in the amazonica states the initial place where they were found and last time I checked, Manaus is in Brazil, not Peru

 

[ccamaleon3000]

Exactly storm. I got 20 slings back in 2004, 5 from each importer, the only one grew up to be the real amazonica it was john turtle imports back in those days wasn't the name mananus around. Or it was amazonica or sp peru purple. Storm you keep teasing me whit those amazonicas lol

 

[fuzzyavics72]

You're correct Austin. I wasn't paying attention. My apologies.

Here's my big girl! I can't wait till she get over nine inches!

Then <edit> is this mature male?!?!