Avicularia Taxonomy

[woofwolfy]

Hi all,

I've been digging into research about Avicularia sp for the last few weeks as I prepare to take home an avic sling of my own.

Something I've bumped into a few times is that there was a major revision to the taxonomic classification of the Avicularia species, and a lot of things are called different things now.

I'm curious about what the "proper" names for the nomen dubium classifications there are now.

Specifically, I'm a little confused about "braunshauseni" because I've seen it referred to as Morphotype 2 as well as M2, but the comprehensive thread on Avicularia morphotypes seems to identify Morphotype 2 & M2 as different things. Unless I'm reading in incorrectly, in which case I appreciate any clarification.

Additionally, the article I read from Tom's Bug Spiders of the 2017 revision, said that it's fine to refer to the nomen dubium classifications by their original names, as they're in doubt not reclassified.

But other threads I've read on here indicate that this in not the generally accepted practice within the hobby.

Lastly, what on earth is the common name for this spider because I've seen both Goliath Pink Toe & Turcuri Pink Toe attached to the species name Avicularia braunshauseni

 

[viper69]

Go by the paper, NOT a thread, not some other nonsense

Tom is wrong! However many people use older EXPIRED names like Metallica because peeps found those first.

Goliath was the original common name in the US decades ago- spoiler they aren’t that big

Lastly common names come about by MANY ways, sometimes through illegal capture.

They aren’t that useful esp with Brazilian arboreals, and Mexican terrestrials.


I had someone PM me about his bird eater, how NOT useful at all!!!!!!!!!!!

m stands for Morphotype!!!

If there’s an error, report the post and provide your data to support your claim

 

[woofwolfy]

Go by the paper, NOT a thread, not some other nonsense

Tom is wrong! However many people use older EXPIRED names like Metallica because peeps found those first.

Goliath was the original common name in the US decades ago- spoiler they aren’t that big

Lastly common names come about by MANY ways, sometimes through illegal capture.

They aren’t that useful esp with Brazilian arboreals, and Mexican terrestrials.


I had someone PM me about his bird eater, how NOT useful at all!!!!!!!!!!!

m stands for Morphotype!!!

If there’s an error, report the post and provide your data to support your claim

Thank you for the breakdown!

For clarity, it would be proper to refer to the nomen dubium classifications by Avicularia avicularia M1, Avicularia juruensis M1, etc?

 

[viper69]

Thank you for the breakdown!

For clarity, it would be proper to refer to the nomen dubium classifications by Avicularia avicularia M1, Avicularia juruensis M1, etc?

I use M6, I don’t mix old non-used names with correct names in the way you wrote it- that’s not smart.at all

I do this “M6, aka metallica…”

Your example will further confuse people who have no clue. And data stays on the net forever.

 

[woofwolfy]

I use M6, I don’t mix old non-used names with correct names in the way you wrote it- that’s not smart.at all

I do this “M6, aka metallica…”

Your example will further confuse people who have no clue. And data stays on the net forever.

I apologize, I don't follow what you're saying.



My example is referring to Avicularia avicularia and Avicularia juruensis, which are fully recognized species that have several morphotypes each. Six for A. avicularia & 3 for A. juruensis.
Would Avicularia avicularia M1 not be the proper identification for the first morphotype of the A. avicularia, and Avicularia juruensis M1 for the first morphotype of A. juruensis?





"Avicularia species (verified):

Avicularia avicularia

Avicularia glauca

Avicularia variegata

Avicularia minatrix

Avicularia taunayi

Avicularia juruensis

Avicularia rufa

Avicularia purpurea

Avicularia hirschii

Avicularia merianae

Avicularia lynnae

Avicularia caei



Nomen dubium:

Ischnocolus hirsutum

Avicularia metallica

Ischnocolus gracilis

Avicularia arabica

Avicularia aurantiaca

Araneus hirtipes

Avicularia testacea

Avicularia detrita

Avicularia hirsutissima

Avicularia holmbergi

Ischnocolus doleschalli

Avicularia rapax

Avicularia ochracea

Avicularia walckenaerii

Avicularia azuraklaasi

Avicularia braunshauseni

Avicularia geroldi

Avicularia huriana

Avicularia ulrichea

Avicularia soratae

Avicularia fasciculata

Avicularia fasciculata clara

Avicularia surinamensis"

 

[viper69]

I apologize, I don't follow what you're saying.



My example is referring to Avicularia avicularia and Avicularia juruensis, which are fully recognized species that have several morphotypes each. Six for A. avicularia & 3 for A. juruensis.
Would Avicularia avicularia M1 not be the proper identification for the first morphotype of the A. avicularia, and Avicularia juruensis M1 for the first morphotype of A. juruensis?





"Avicularia species (verified):

Avicularia avicularia

Avicularia glauca

Avicularia variegata

Avicularia minatrix

Avicularia taunayi

Avicularia juruensis

Avicularia rufa

Avicularia purpurea

Avicularia hirschii

Avicularia merianae

Avicularia lynnae

Avicularia caei



Nomen dubium:

Ischnocolus hirsutum

Avicularia metallica

Ischnocolus gracilis

Avicularia arabica

Avicularia aurantiaca

Araneus hirtipes

Avicularia testacea

Avicularia detrita

Avicularia hirsutissima

Avicularia holmbergi

Ischnocolus doleschalli

Avicularia rapax

Avicularia ochracea

Avicularia walckenaerii

Avicularia azuraklaasi

Avicularia braunshauseni

Avicularia geroldi

Avicularia huriana

Avicularia ulrichea

Avicularia soratae

Avicularia fasciculata

Avicularia fasciculata clara

Avicularia surinamensis"

I misunderstood you.

Metallica is Morphotype 6 from A avic

How I refer to it see above

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Hi all,

I've been digging into research about Avicularia sp for the last few weeks as I prepare to take home an avic sling of my own.

Something I've bumped into a few times is that there was a major revision to the taxonomic classification of the Avicularia species, and a lot of things are called different things now.

I'm curious about what the "proper" names for the nomen dubium classifications there are now.

Specifically, I'm a little confused about "braunshauseni" because I've seen it referred to as Morphotype 2 as well as M2, but the comprehensive thread on Avicularia morphotypes seems to identify Morphotype 2 & M2 as different things. Unless I'm reading in incorrectly, in which case I appreciate any clarification.

Additionally, the article I read from Tom's Bug Spiders of the 2017 revision, said that it's fine to refer to the nomen dubium classifications by their original names, as they're in doubt not reclassified.

But other threads I've read on here indicate that this in not the generally accepted practice within the hobby.

Lastly, what on earth is the common name for this spider because I've seen both Goliath Pink Toe & Turcuri Pink Toe attached to the species name Avicularia braunshauseni

The published research in tarantula taxonomy, such as the revision of the genus Avicularia, seek to understand the natural diversity of a group of tarantulas and make the proper changes in nomenclature as a result of that understanding. When tarantulas are collected from the wild, bred in captivity, and sold around the world to those who have no interest in understanding such research the scientific names given to tarantulas become more like product names than a reflection of the relationships between evolving groups.

By trying to understand and keep up with changes in names and classifications published in academic journals for your captive tarantulas for the purposes of being "proper," you will be opening yourself up to all kinds of confusion and stress because sometimes people make lists and try to apply the science to what are essentially pets without understanding how those changes came about in the first place and/ or how to use publications to properly identify their tarantulas. It doesn't matter what you call a tarantula that makes its way into the pet trade as long as you know what you are buying and have some expectation of what you have. For example, if you see an Avicularia metallica on someone's price list it doesn't really matter that it isn't a proper name just because the authors of the revision of the Avicularia genus found that name to be a nomen dubium. As long as you have an idea of what it will look like you can call it whatever you want when it is received. You can keep the name as Avicualria metallica or call it Avicularia avicularia "morphotype 2" if you want.

Fortunately for us tarantula keepers, most species of tarantulas don't have specific care requirements. All of the Avicularia species require the same basic care which is the same as the Caribena species. So if you were to need help or advice on caring for an Avicularia metallica (aka "M2" aka "Morphotype 2"), having a proper name doesn't matter. What is more important than having a proper name when asking for help is a good clear photo of the tarantula and the problem.

So don't worry so much about being proper with names and just enjoy the tarantula(s) you have for what they are and don't worry so much about what they are called.

 

[woofwolfy]

The published research in tarantula taxonomy, such as the revision of the genus Avicularia, seek to understand the natural diversity of a group of tarantulas and make the proper changes in nomenclature as a result of that understanding. When tarantulas are collected from the wild, bred in captivity, and sold around the world to those who have no interest in understanding such research the scientific names given to tarantulas become more like product names than a reflection of the relationships between evolving groups.

By trying to understand and keep up with changes in names and classifications published in academic journals for your captive tarantulas for the purposes of being "proper," you will be opening yourself up to all kinds of confusion and stress because sometimes people make lists and try to apply the science to what are essentially pets without understanding how those changes came about in the first place and/ or how to use publications to properly identify their tarantulas. It doesn't matter what you call a tarantula that makes its way into the pet trade as long as you know what you are buying and have some expectation of what you have. For example, if you see an Avicularia metallica on someone's price list it doesn't really matter that it isn't a proper name just because the authors of the revision of the Avicularia genus found that name to be a nomen dubium. As long as you have an idea of what it will look like you can call it whatever you want when it is received. You can keep the name as Avicualria metallica or call it Avicularia avicularia "morphotype 2" if you want.

Fortunately for us tarantula keepers, most species of tarantulas don't have specific care requirements. All of the Avicularia species require the same basic care which is the same as the Caribena species. So if you were to need help or advice on caring for an Avicularia metallica (aka "M2" aka "Morphotype 2"), having a proper name doesn't matter. What is more important than having a proper name when asking for help is a good clear photo of the tarantula and the problem.

So don't worry so much about being proper with names and just enjoy the tarantula(s) you have for what they are and don't worry so much about what they are called.

I appreciate the encouragement!

Mostly, I'm trying to make sure any critter I buy is actually what it says it is, and knowing all the proper names helps me identify what I'm buying in a shop. Especially when they get labeled by common names by the seller.

 

[l4nsky]

I appreciate the encouragement!

Mostly, I'm trying to make sure any critter I buy is actually what it says it is, and knowing all the proper names helps me identify what I'm buying in a shop. Especially when they get labeled by common names by the seller.

LPT, if you really want to know what you're buying and you're looking for something not commonly seen in a pet shop, then a vendor using common names over latin names is likely not going to be the best source.

 

[Nitroxide]

LPT, if you really want to know what you're buying and you're looking for something not commonly seen in a pet shop, then a vendor using common names over latin names is likely not going to be the best source.

Agreed with this - unless you find a specialized shop or seller, a lot of places that call them by common names still risk being improperly identified. Even at the shop where I impulsively got my a. seemanni, they had no idea what the proper name was (even when I know for a fact that their vendor clearly marks them in their order sheet). Some sellers even will have the "formerly [insert name here]".