Availability, or rather lack of availability of the underrated spider, Dysdera crocata

[Wayfarin]

Hey folks!
Perhaps some people on this forum are aware of my former post on the range of the woodlouse spider, Dysdera crocata.
However, I've been wondering. Why is this spider so rare in the arachnid-keeping hobby?
They're not dangerous, like black widows. They don't have space requirements, like tarantulas. They don't need to be fed very often, like active jumping spiders.
Isopods, their favorite food, are as readily available as crickets and mealworms these days.
It has occurred to me that, after watching YouTube videos on the species, most people who keep them just capture them from the wild. We live in New Hampshire, but to my knowledge, Dysdera crocata is pretty rare north of Massachusetts.
Apparently, some people have them in abundance. I cringe whenever I see people make them fight with centipedes. Apparently, some people take them for granted.
If Dysdera crocata spiders are so readily available in the wild, then why are they so hard to find captive bred? Does nobody find them interesting?
Are they hard to breed in captivity or something? Or has it just never occurred to anyone to breed them?

If anyone has read my former post, then they may also be aware that I'm interested in the common centipede, Lithobius forficatus.
I'm not as concerned about the availability of this species, as I'm pretty sure that we have them around here. Nevertheless, it would be nice if this species was also more available captive bred.

If anyone knows where to find them in the wild, then any input would be very much appreciated.
Thanks anyways! God bless!

 

[dogpack]

This is interesting. I've been researching a lot of material related to keeping T's. Centipedes have not yet hit the top of my to-do list.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I would assume they aren’t common in the trade because they aren’t the most interesting. They hide most the time either under leaf litter or boards or in silken retreats under things. They probably aren’t seen much when they are kept.

 

[Liquifin]

They live in my basement and I can just look at them for free without having to catch any. I'm not saying they're less valuable than tarantulas or other spiders. But they don't have that exotic pet feel to them since they're native to the US. To me, the best way to enjoy them is to just watch them in my basement whenever they decide to come through.

 

[Jonathan6303]

As others stated they are not seen much. I have a mature female who I bred and now have 5 spiderlings who is NEVER out in the open. There also fairly common in backyards so I don’t think there would be a huge demand.

 

[Wayfarin]

They live in my basement and I can just look at them for free without having to catch any. I'm not saying they're less valuable than tarantulas or other spiders. But they don't have that exotic pet feel to them since they're native to the US. To me, the best way to enjoy them is to just watch them in my basement whenever they decide to come through.

Well, I cannot recall of having ever seen a woodlouse spider, especially in my basement. If I did see one, that would just make me more interested in them.

As others stated they are not seen much. I have a mature female who I bred and now have 5 spiderlings who is NEVER out in the open. There also fairly common in backyards so I don’t think there would be a huge demand.

Well, they weren't common in Connecticut where I lived, despite all of the woodlice. Maybe I just never looked hard enough.
They're apparently absent from where I live now, according to iNaturalist. I think it's too cold for them in the winter.
<edit>

 

[CRX]

I've found a few of these in my backyard turning up stones and bird baths. I just don't see any reason to keep them, I leave em alone to their habitat.

 

[regalpaws]

Im in SE Iowa, I found one in my rock pile in our back field. Maybe that would help you narrow down where to look.
They're out of stock currently by this seller (Ive never bought from them btw), but heres the link and you can get notified when its back in stock.

Woodlouse Hunter Spider - Bugs In Cyberspace

Woodlouse Hunters Dysdera crocata are one of the only urban predators of pill bugs. They eat sow bugs and other isopods too. These colorful red spiders do

bugsincyberspace.com

They're kinda neat, they look like naked lil tarantulas.

 

[schmiggle]

On top of what everyone else said (I've seen them in the woods in the wild in MA), they're not particularly big or colorful, and their behaviors are fairly standard.

I wouldn't trust inaturalist on much of anything. I'd probably ask a scammer first when it comes to the range of Dysdera in the US.

Btw, they're not native, it's a European invasive iirc.

 

[Wayfarin]

On top of what everyone else said (I've seen them in the woods in the wild in MA), they're not particularly big or colorful, and their behaviors are fairly standard.

I wouldn't trust inaturalist on much of anything. I'd probably ask a scammer first when it comes to the range of Dysdera in the US.

Btw, they're not native, it's a European invasive iirc.

I consider Dysdera crocata colorful, at least compared to the common household spiders that I see most often. And I'm not looking for a particularly big spider. Small spiders are easier to house.

INaturalist isn't trustworthy? Well, if it isn't, I still can't find any reports of Dysdera crocata in northern NH. It just seems too cold up here.

I've found a few of these in my backyard turning up stones and bird baths. I just don't see any reason to keep them, I leave em alone to their habitat.

Well, Dysdera crocata isn't native to North America anyways, so there's no reason to leave them in the wild.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I consider Dysdera crocata colorful, at least compared to the common household spiders that I see most often. And I'm not looking for a particularly big spider. Small spiders are easier to house.

INaturalist isn't trustworthy? Well, if it isn't, I still can't find any reports of Dysdera crocata in northern NH. It just seems too cold up here.

Here is one found in New Hampshire https://bugguide.net/node/view/1951340

 

[schmiggle]

INaturalist isn't trustworthy?

I think it works ok to tell where charismatic flowers are common, but it's hugely limited by whatever people feel like submitting, and I can promise you that that isn't Dysdera.

Here is one found in New Hampshire https://bugguide.net/node/view/1951340

In fairness, Nashua's far enough south and close to the coast that it's probably decently warmer than Groveton in winter.

@Wayfarin do you have access to a car? If you regularly collect in eastern MA and southeastern NH you should come by one sooner or later.

Edit: Dysdera seems to be present in Minnesota and Wyoming as well. While both states do have substantial regions warmer than Groveton in the winter, I wonder if it might actually be more about summer temperatures, which are almost certainly higher in both locations. I don't know if that changes where it's best to look, but it might be worth thinking about, since iirc the species is originally Mediterranean.

 

[Wayfarin]

I think it works ok to tell where charismatic flowers are common, but it's hugely limited by whatever people feel like submitting, and I can promise you that that isn't Dysdera.

In fairness, Nashua's far enough south and close to the coast that it's probably decently warmer than Groveton in winter.

@Wayfarin do you have access to a car? If you regularly collect in eastern MA and southeastern NH you should come by one sooner or later.

Edit: Dysdera seems to be present in Minnesota and Wyoming as well. While both states do have substantial regions warmer than Groveton in the winter, I wonder if it might actually be more about summer temperatures, which are almost certainly higher in both locations. I don't know if that changes where it's best to look, but it might be worth thinking about, since iirc the species is originally Mediterranean.

We don't regularly visit Massachusetts or southernmost New Hampshire, but hopefully we will be able to in due time. I still feel like searching right where I live, but only if there is reasonable evidence that Dysdera does in fact live around here.
INaturalist does have reports of Dysdera in Montreal and Ottawa, in Canada, which I would think would have at least similar temperatures to where I live now.

 

[schmiggle]

INaturalist does have reports of Dysdera in Montreal and Ottawa, in Canada, which I would think would have at least similar temperatures to where I live now.

Both Montreal and Ottawa seem to be quite a bit warmer than Groveton. Can't hurt to look, though, especially since a lot of what creates those inaturalist range limits is just where people are, not where species are.

 

[darkness975]

They're not dangerous, like black widows

This is relative.

 

[Biollantefan54]

This is relative.

Thats a good point, they’re venom isn’t as potent but out of the thousands of spiders I’ve handled, black widows included. A D. crocata in 20 degree weather in the winter was the only spider I’ve ever had attempt to bite me. It didn’t get me because how slow it was moving in the cold but it definitely attempted to

 

[Lordosteous]

I regularly see these wandering here in Colorado at 7500 ft elevation, so they're pretty tolerant of the cold.
I think they're fascinating looking, definitely underrated, but they have a few drawbacks. They have a maximum lifespan of about 5 years for females, which is decent for a true spider. They are highly cannibalistic in my experience though. I once put two in a 4 ft by 2 ft isopod bin, thinking it would be enough space, but within half an hour they were eating each other.
I once attempted to breed them as well. Mating was about what you'd expect, with the male ending up as dinner afterwards. The problem I had was that the babies were sooooo tiny, I gave up trying to separate them, and there was a lot of cannibalism.
Overall, a really cool spider, but too readily available in the wild to justify the work of separating and raising the teensy, delicate babies.

 

[Biollantefan54]

I regularly see these wandering here in Colorado at 7500 ft elevation, so they're pretty tolerant of the cold.
I think they're fascinating looking, definitely underrated, but they have a few drawbacks. They have a maximum lifespan of about 5 years for females, which is decent for a true spider. They are highly cannibalistic in my experience though. I once put two in a 4 ft by 2 ft isopod bin, thinking it would be enough space, but within half an hour they were eating each other.
I once attempted to breed them as well. Mating was about what you'd expect, with the male ending up as dinner afterwards. The problem I had was that the babies were sooooo tiny, I gave up trying to separate them, and there was a lot of cannibalism.
Overall, a really cool spider, but too readily available in the wild to justify the work of separating and raising the teensy, delicate babies.

That’s interesting that they are cannibalistic. I have flipped many boards and found multiple underneath, I would think they’d be more tolerant of each other

 

[Wayfarin]

I regularly see these wandering here in Colorado at 7500 ft elevation, so they're pretty tolerant of the cold.
I think they're fascinating looking, definitely underrated, but they have a few drawbacks. They have a maximum lifespan of about 5 years for females, which is decent for a true spider. They are highly cannibalistic in my experience though. I once put two in a 4 ft by 2 ft isopod bin, thinking it would be enough space, but within half an hour they were eating each other.
I once attempted to breed them as well. Mating was about what you'd expect, with the male ending up as dinner afterwards. The problem I had was that the babies were sooooo tiny, I gave up trying to separate them, and there was a lot of cannibalism.
Overall, a really cool spider, but too readily available in the wild to justify the work of separating and raising the teensy, delicate babies.

But is it as cold as Groveton? It gets like 7 degrees Fahrenheit here on occasion.
How sheltered was the isopod bin? I think that shelter matters more than space in terms of minimizing spider cannibalism.

Dysdera crocata may be readily available to some people, but not to those of us who live in frigid cold regions.
It's so easy for us to take for granted our backyard wildlife until they disappear from us. For example, when we used to live in Connecticut, we used to see Carolina wrens and tufted titmice all of the time. No one was running over to the window to see them when they appeared at our birdfeeders, but we'd all come running to see a bear or hawk. But since we've moved, I'd be more excited to see one of these birds than a bear or hawk.
And unfortunately, I wasn't interested in spiders when we lived in Connecticut. If I was, then maybe I could've taken some captive-bred Dysdera spiders with me.

 

[Lordosteous]

But is it as cold as Groveton? It gets like 7 degrees Fahrenheit here on occasion.

Our lowest temperature last winter was -21F, so maybe there are other factors preventing them from being common? It's worth noting, I see them in around my workplace which is a highly disturbed park environment with many other invasive species, I have not seen any in more natural, undisturbed areas.

How sheltered was the isopod bin? I think that shelter matters more than space in terms of minimizing spider cannibalism.

It was the first large bin I ever made, so it definitely wasn't ideal, but it did have a large log and many pieces of bark. If shelter was the issue then it must not have had enough, or it could be that it was a male trying to mate with an already fertilized female.

As for your sentiment on backyard wildlife disappearing, I couldn't agree more. Colorado is a veritable arthropod desert, but I spent several years in Indiana as a kid. What I wouldn't give to see a big Dolomedes or Narceus americanus in my backyard again!