Are we allowed to talk about controlling Brown Recluses here?

[Joe Bananas]

I have a deep respect for insects and spiders. I have a relatively large insect collection. However, we moved to a house in the country, and the previous owner not only hadn't lived here for months, they were trashy packrats and left me an infestation. I've killed over 300 of the spiders (this isn't the first infestation I've dealt with) but I am still having problems controlling them. Pest control companies waste of time/money with false promises (salesman said they'd have a tool/chemical that could kill the eggs (HA) ) - I know everyone here respects these creatures, but considering the topic would be about destroying many of them, I want to ask before I make other posts.


Thanks

 

[basin79]

Come to a predominantly spider forum to type about killing spiders. That's akin to going on a vegetarian forum and typing, "How am I supposed to stop eating meat when it's so tasty?"............

 

[DaveM]

Allowed, maybe. Earn you popularity, no.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Are you sure they're recluses? Sounds like a pain to deal with.

 

[Polenth]

Fill the house with pholcids.

 

[chanda]

Fill the house with pholcids.

Or spitting spiders:

 

[BoyFromLA]

Whether it’s allowed or not, that I am not certain, but I certainly can tell you, this is not the best place to ask, that’s for sure.

 

[Nicole C G]

I know that something like “my non-native spider unexpectedly laid an egg sack. Should I cull the slings?” is allowed, but asking how to purposefully kill a large amount of spiders just because may be considered a little rude.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I have a deep respect for insects and spiders. I have a relatively large insect collection. However, we moved to a house in the country, and the previous owner not only hadn't lived here for months, they were trashy packrats and left me an infestation. I've killed over 300 of the spiders (this isn't the first infestation I've dealt with) but I am still having problems controlling them. Pest control companies waste of time/money with false promises (salesman said they'd have a tool/chemical that could kill the eggs (HA) ) - I know everyone here respects these creatures, but considering the topic would be about destroying many of them, I want to ask before I make other posts.

Thanks

Since this question is being asked in a respectable manner it is allowed. There is a big difference between asking "how do I control a brown recluse infestation in my house?" and something like "I hate spiders, how do I kill them all?" This thread will remain open so long as the responses to the question remain respectable as well.

Or spitting spiders:

As a matter of fact, my apartment is full of spitting spiders! They maybe great at controlling the population of insects and other wandering spiders, but they are no match from cobweb spiders. Every summer I find male spitting spiders dead on my floor wrapped in silk underneath an inhabited cobweb.

 

[Hardus nameous]

I had them all over my old house in Kansas about a decade ago. I traveled for work alot so as I was leaving one day I set off bug bombs in the cellar and the house. It took quite a while for the spider population to recover from that.
I don't know if bug bombs are an option for you since you said you had an insect collection; so the only other way I can think of off hand would be strategically placed glue traps and seal entry points.

 

[Tarantuland]

Step 1: Capture them all individually
Step 2: Become an arachnosupporter
Step 3: Post them in a classified
Step 4: Profit
Step 5: Early retirement

 

[programmatic]

I recently looked at Control Solutions, Inc's various products for a serious pest infestation I was dealing with at a neglected home I moved to as well. Unfortunately, sometimes resorting to chemicals is the only solution. Definitely a bit of a sad situation to find ourselves in given our "hobby." At the end of the day- protection of family has to be considered. There are 3-4 solid sites that sell the stuff professionals use. Try DoMyOwn.com.

For indoor cracks, crevices, and perimeter treatment, you should consider Control Solution's Bifen IT concentrate and mix it at the 0.12% dilution noted in their comprehensive manual. It's 7.9% concentrate of bifenthrin. For outdoor perimeter, basement, attic, you should consider their stronger (25%) oil-based Bifen XTS product. The oil-based formula will provide longer-lasting perimeter control and quicker "knockdown" effect of anything that crawls across it. Unfortunately, this means you'll be killing every other insect around as well. You have to be very careful to avoid bees. Spray early morning or later in the evening and avoid any flowering plants or areas they might be hanging out. In general you need to exercise caution and responsibility as not to allow any to run off into public water systems or accidentally having over-spray drift toward areas where aquatic life may be. Bifenthrin is extremely toxic to aquatic life. Please read the manual and about it, thoroughly.

The highly concentrated bifenthrin of this product is considered safe for pets and humans once dry. You can find the studies with some quick searches. However, we never know much about the proprietary inactive ingredients these companies use for longer-lasting residual effects. Bifenthrin is a pyrethroid, which is essentially a group of synthetic/man-made versions of pyrethrins. This otherwise natural pesticide is produced by chrysanthemum flowers. The natural version breaks down under UV too quickly, thus the synthetics.

You need to take a multi-pronged approach. Consider products like dusts to apply in wall voids via side of outlet boxes behind their plates. Cimexa or Delta Dust. Cimexa is interesting- read about it and the difference between amorphous and crystalline silicon dioxide. And as someone above mentioned- "exclusion" (i.e. sealing entrypoints) is very important. Should be your first step, really.

Again, please read all manuals and be mindful of bees and aquatic life, should you go this route. Read about the responsible ways to apply insecticides (e.g. where, how often, etc.) if you absolutely need to resort to chemicals.

 

[The Snark]

@programmatic While a worth while concise suggestion I will fault one aspect. Neurotoxins do not have long term effects tested. Subsequently, living in a house with chemicals that are known neurotoxins such as Bifenthrin is ill advised.

If I had to suggest a pesticide it would be a product with fenbutatin oxide (Vendex) It is well established to target mites and thus spiders and is otherwise low toxicity and persistence.

And something to keep in mind; spiders are generally resistant to pesticides. Multiple applications of any chemical will be required.

An overview of pesticides: https://www2.ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/citrus/Selectivity-of-Insecticides-and-Miticides/

 

[programmatic]

@programmatic While a worth while concise suggestion I will fault one aspect. Neurotoxins do not have long term effects tested. Subsequently, living in a house with chemicals that are known neurotoxins such as Bifenthrin is ill advised.

If I had to suggest a pesticide it would be a product with fenbutatin oxide (Vendex) It is well established to target mites and thus spiders and is otherwise low toxicity and persistence.

And something to keep in mind; spiders are generally resistant to pesticides. Multiple applications of any chemical will be required.

An overview of pesticides: https://www2.ipm.ucanr.edu/agriculture/citrus/Selectivity-of-Insecticides-and-Miticides/

It's definitely something we have to consider. Just like the countless other known and possible carcinogens or neurotoxins we expose ourselves to in our very homes, including aluminum (neurotoxic). The choices we make. Alternatively, I can't fault you for your conservative viewpoint. It's not not wise!

That said, there has been extensive research done on bifenthrin, in mice. And scrutiny by the EPA. It would take ingesting a large amount for a prolonged amount of time to reach a lethal dose, and despite being classified as a Category C possible carcinogen by the EPA, it's considered to be low in toxicity to mammals. Lethality aside, it's worth looking at the research done on mice and the other non-lethal negative effects that over-exposure can yield. How bifenthrin works is actually fascinating. When it comes down to it, you're right- we just don't know...especially when we factor in these proprietary inactive ingredient formulas coupled alongside. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing we only get clarity on later as we are now with aluminum or did with lead, only after we're fully in the thick of it!

I would also much rather apply these chemicals myself rather than trust Orkin or some other major pest control corporation's over-scheduled technician to hastily do it. The bifenthrin, fipronil etc from Control Solutions, Inc are all commonly used by these companies.

Don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, but I'm glad you chimed in because I forgot to touch on what this all comes down to: the potentially harmful-to-our-health choices we make daily.

 

[The Snark]

I would also much rather apply these chemicals myself rather than trust Orkin

I honestly don't know how two guys I knew who worked for Orkin managed to get high school diplomas. But that aside, the procedures and chemicals you outlined would be difficult for the average homeowner to follow and apply to say the least. Rather than debate the nuances we need to see how the OP responds. In this day and age of dumbed down instant gratification, - grab can, point away from your person, push down valve - a cautious, methodical complex effort involving multiple chemicals over several days along with preventive measures ... we shall see.

I'm reminded of one hill tribe area here in northern Thailand which I named poison valley. Midsummer veggie crops. The road which ringed the valley having a pressure pump and 55 gallon drum every few hundred feet. A bewildering assortment of empty pesticide containers beside the drums haphardly measured and multiple chemicals often mixed together. Then the persons spraying the stuff, no gloves or body protection and a bandana over their faces for respirators. The average person could find that valley in the dead of night in a thick fog simply going by the chemical stench. Call me cynical but average homeowner in the first world often doesn't act much smarter.

And a word of caution for everyone. NEVER mix pesticides. With the exception of manufacturer tested and approved chemicals and strictly adhered to guidelines as Bifen mentioned above, no pesticide is tested let alone approved mixed with others and most such mixtures are almost certain to be much more lethal, pernicious and pervasive than their individual intended usage and purposes. (Homeowners mixing chlorine and ammonia ring any bells?)

PS Eggs and microwaves don't play well together either. Unless you are into combined endo-exothermic messes.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

strategically placed glue traps and seal entry points.

Personally, I'd give this a good solid try before thinking about killing everything.

Glue traps pick up all sorts of household nuisances (mice, roaches, crickets, fruit flies, and if they pick up a snake that's looking to hibernate they can be released from the glue using vegetable oil and then released outside). Sealing around windows, behind floorboards, etc with spray foam or caulk is great for reducing energy costs as a side benefit. If it works for the spider issue too, then great, but if not it isn't a wasted effort.

 

[Hardus nameous]

Personally, I'd give this a good solid try before thinking about killing everything.

Glue traps pick up all sorts of household nuisances (mice, roaches, crickets, fruit flies, and if they pick up a snake that's looking to hibernate they can be released from the glue using vegetable oil and then released outside). Sealing around windows, behind floorboards, etc with spray foam or caulk is great for reducing energy costs as a side benefit. If it works for the spider issue too, then great, but if not it isn't a wasted effort.

Even beyond keeping them out is taking away their favourite places to hide. All the recluses I see in my new house (moved across town) seem to hang out around cracks and crevices they can quickly duck into. If I ever want to get rid of them I'll just vacuum them up and adjust the base moulding down.
(Carpet was taken out and composite flooring was put in, hence a gap in the base moulding they duck into.) They don't bother me enough to motivate me to do that though.

 

[The Snark]

If I ever want to get rid of them I'll just vacuum them up

That really is the most sensible solution. Creative repetitive vacuuming. Get to know every nook cranny and crevice in your home.

And on that subject, there's vacuuming and there's a teamwork effort. Vacuuming is a chore, a job you just want to get done. Everyone has seen the classical version. One person, often a woman, quickly pushing the suck machine with a bunch of couch potatoes lifting their legs to accommodate. Real vacuuming like we do here in critter central requires a team. A mover-facilitator and the vacuum operator. Everything gets moved allowing access, drawers pulled out to get cleaned in and underneath, cupboards opened, and every last object moved about. It's a very intensive undertaking, usually only a single room getting done in the time it usually takes to do the entire house. The gecko hideouts and their eggs, the dozen different kinds of ants making nests way inside and underneath cupboards, the zillion pholcid webs which we use as indicators of what still needs to be done, the mite nests and webs, especially at the ceiling and around every window, and of course the huntsman that get disturbed that needs protecting from the suck or moved outside. A half hour a room isn't unusual, but beats never being able to finish your soda or coffee before the ants are using it as a buffet or some kind of bug using it as a swimming pool or ritual suicide station..

 

[Ungoliant]

I have a deep respect for insects and spiders. I have a relatively large insect collection. However, we moved to a house in the country, and the previous owner not only hadn't lived here for months, they were trashy packrats and left me an infestation. I've killed over 300 of the spiders (this isn't the first infestation I've dealt with) but I am still having problems controlling them. Pest control companies waste of time/money with false promises (salesman said they'd have a tool/chemical that could kill the eggs (HA) ) - I know everyone here respects these creatures, but considering the topic would be about destroying many of them, I want to ask before I make other posts.

Insecticides often don't work as well against spiders as insects. (After all, they are formulated to kill insects, not spiders.) You can kill a spider with a direct spray, but spiders are not as vulnerable to residual pesticides.

The most effective way to reduce the number of spiders in and around your home is a combination of physically excluding them (sealing them out) and making your home less attractive to spiders by reducing harborages (places that spiders and their prey can live or hide).

Some tips from Rick Vetter:

This almost-universally applies to those people who live within the areas of the map shown at the website.

If you do not live within these areas on the map, you are very unlikely to have recluse spiders unless you can prove it by providing a specimen to a QUALIFIED expert. (Be aware that due to the infamy of the brown recluse and its subsequent hyperbole, harmless spiders have been misidentified as recluses by physicians, pest control personnel and even entomologists.)

Be aware that it is almost impossible to eliminate recluse spiders from a building once they get established. The best you can hope for is a significant reduction in the numbers of spiders and take steps to reduce the chances of being bitten.

• Remove bed skirts from beds. Move the bed away from the wall. Remove everything from under the bed so that the only way the spiders can get up on the bed is to crawl up one of the four legs.
• Use sticky traps to trap spiders. Every one you catch is one less recluse that can bite you. If you have curious young children or pets, this increases the difficulty of deployment.
• When you store things in the garage, basement or attic, put them in plastic bags that you can close with a plastic zipper lock or twist-tie. Hardware stores now sell massive zipper-locking bags (like 10 gallon size). This is especially important for things that you stick your hands and feet into like: roller skates, baseball gloves, gardening gloves, boots, rain gear. Many people get bitten by putting on clothes that have been lying around for several weeks or months and press the spider against their skin. Tape up the edges of cardboard boxes so there is no way a spider can squeeze inside. Store boxes 8 inches off the ground and 8 inches away from walls.
• I'm sure your kids will hate me for this one but don't throw clothes on the floor and then wear them the next day. If you do, shake them out or squish them into a ball before putting on the t-shirt or whatever. Bang out shoes first to see if a spider crawled into it during the night.
• Be careful when you move things out of storage areas, in particular, cardboard boxes. Recluses like to hang out in the space under folded cardboard flaps. Be careful when you carry the boxes as you might place your fingers on a recluse when you pick up the box or press a recluse against your body when you carry it. Remove any spiders inside boxes using a vacuum cleaner and dispose of the bag. The tumbling of spiders through a wrinkled hose of a shop vacuum is often sufficient to kill them. Reseal all open edges of cardboard boxes with tape before restoring them.
• Clean up clutter and junk that is lying around. Recluses love clutter and prefer to live under and between items, such as plywood, tarps and cardboard on the ground
• Do not stack wood against the house. Recluses like woodpiles and if they take up residence inside wood stacked next to a house, there is more chance that they will wander into the home. Move the woodpile as far from the house as possible, stack it off the ground and cover it with a tarp. These steps make the firewood less attractive to insects and the spiders that feed upon them. Also, when you pick up wood, wear gloves. Of course, check the gloves first for spiders, or stomp on the gloves first to squash a spider (as disgusting as it might seem to put on a glove with a squished spider in the finger, squished spiders don't bite.)

Other things you should know about brown recluses:

Despite all the overly excessive precautions you may want to make, be aware that the humans of the Midwestern U.S. are living with millions of brown recluses everyday and bites are a rare occurrence. I have heard from several people who collect dozens to hundreds of recluses in their homes every year and nobody in that household (including their little babies) has ever shown evidence of a bite. This does not mean that you should ignore them. They are potentially dangerous, however, you are probably more at risk from injury every time you get behind the wheel of a car.

• most households with brown recluses never experience a bite
• 90% of all brown recluse bites heal without severe scarring.
• many brown recluse bites cause just a little red mark that heals without event.

As a matter of fact, my apartment is full of spitting spiders! They maybe great at controlling the population of insects and other wandering spiders, but they are no match from cobweb spiders. Every summer I find male spitting spiders dead on my floor wrapped in silk underneath an inhabited cobweb.

If I had to rank our local house spiders among themselves, it would be:

1. common house spiders (Parasteatoda tepidariorum)
2. spitting spiders
3. southern house spiders (Kukulcania hibernalis)

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

As others have mentioned here, pesticides come with risks that can be far greater than simply living with recluses.

There's lots you can do to significantly reduce their numbers by using their own behaviour against them. Recluses earned their name honestly - they're reclusive. They prefer undisturbed areas. Frequent dusting, sweeping, and vacuuming (especially behind furniture and such) will discourage them from taking up residence in your home. Keeping your house free of clutter removes nesting areas. Sealing cracks around the interior and exterior of the house removes both nesting spots and entry points. All of these are very effective tactics.

Ultimately, if you live in a recluse zone you're likely to have a few, but of course they're not nearly as dangerous as they're made out to be, and merely keeping a tidy house is generally more than enough to discourage infestations.