Are there any fossorial species that are not moisture dependent?

[Yama777]

Hello,
My question may seem strange, let me explain.
I have 2 ReptiZoo terrariums (8x8x12" and 12x12x12") which are in fact a kind of aquarium with a lid (see picture).
This allows to have a big thickness of substrate (good point), but there is no cross ventilation. So for all asian fossorial species, I think it would be risky because of the stagnant humidity.
But are there any fossorial species that like a fairly dry substrate (maybe African species?) that could live in this style of enclosure without suffering from the lack of cross ventilation?
Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Dorifto]

I think it would be risky because of the stagnant humidity.

What made you believe that?

Those komodo/reptizoo enclosures have very good top ventilation, in case you will have any problems, it would be the opposite, not keeping enough humidity inside.

So you won't have any problems keeping any kind of fossorials there, from moisture dependant to drier (soil moisture) ones. Simply adjust the top ventilation depending on wich one you finally choose to keep.

 

[Yama777]

What made you believe that?

Those komodo/reptizoo enclosures have very good top ventilation, in case you will have any problems, it would be the opposite, not keeping enough humidity inside.

So you won't have any problems keeping any kind of fossorials there, from moisture dependant to drier (soil moisture) ones. Simply adjust the top ventilation depending on wich one you finally choose to keep.

I am a cross-ventilation maniac, I try to provide all my species that require some humidity.
I know that stagnant humidity can be a problem for many species, as well as promoting mites and molds.
A simple top ventilation does not allow, in my opinion, a sufficient air flow to guarantee a good ventilation.

 

[Dorifto]

I am a cross-ventilation maniac

This is pure bulshit, they need ventilation, regardless from where it comes. There are more efficient and less efficient systems, but as long as there is enough air exchange, it won't matter which system you use. Ones will achieve the desired air exchange using few holes/grilles placed in strategic places, other will achieve same air exchange having hundreds of holes placed ramdonly, both will provide you the same results.

There are systems that are better than others, that suit certain species better than others. For arboreals you want air constantly circling around, so convection style enclosures will suit them better. For terrestrials, and specially fosorials you don't need any cross ventilation (holes at the sides) as they rely on substrate's moisture to stay healthy. Even if substrate level ventilation helps (creating convection zones), all you really want it's air exchange, to prevent any stagnant air, and your setup, exceeds that requeriment.

A simple top ventilation does not allow, in my opinion, a sufficient air flow to guarantee a good ventilation.

Sorry, but you are completely wrong. If you really believe that, you will have serious problems.

One thing are few holes, and other thing a perforated mesh, that basically acts like if there isn't any lid, having a free flow of air.

Everybody conmited those mistakes, me included. I encourage you to read how all those system works, before blindly following and believing some internet nonsense.


And believe me, you won't find anyone that defends humidity and ventilation harder than me. Anyone could confirm this

 

[Smotzer]

Yes there are many African fossorials such as Pterinochilus murinus and Pelinobius muticus, etc.

 

[Yama777]

This is pure bulshit, they need ventilation, regardless from where it comes. There are more efficient and less efficient systems, but as long as there is enough air exchange, it won't matter which system you use. Ones will achieve the desired air exchange using few holes/grilles placed in strategic places, other will achieve same air exchange having hundreds of holes placed ramdonly, both will provide you the same results.

There are systems that are better than others, that suit certain species better than others. For arboreals you want air constantly circling around, so convection style enclosures will suit them better. For terrestrials, and specially fosorials you don't need any cross ventilation (holes at the sides) as they rely on substrate's moisture to stay healthy. Even if substrate level ventilation helps (creating convection zones), all you really want it's air exchange, to prevent any stagnant air, and your setup, exceeds that requeriment.



Sorry, but you are completely wrong. If you really believe that, you will have serious problems.

One thing are few holes, and other thing a perforated mesh, that basically acts like if there isn't any lid, having a free flow of air.

Everybody conmited those mistakes, me included. I encourage you to read how all those system works, before blindly following and believing some internet nonsense.


And believe me, you won't find anyone that defends humidity and ventilation harder than me. Anyone could confirm this

I may have misspoken when I said cross ventilation.
I meant high ventilation on the lid, accompanied by low ventilation on one side to ensure an air change cycle.
But it's true that the grid here is so large that it should be enough without low ventilation.

 

[arthurliuyz]

I've had my HCM in a Reptizoo tall with tops vents like yours for ages - never had a single problem with the ventilation whatsoever.

 

[Yama777]

Yes there are many African fossorials such as Pterinochilus murinus and Pelinobius muticus, etc.

I already have a female Pterinochilus murinus, which does not dig at all but webs a lot (like a GBB).
Pelinobius muticus would be so great but I have trouble finding individuals bigger than sling here... And they grow so slowly But if one day I find a (sub-)adult female, mamamia I'll take her !

Not African but I had also thought about Ephebopus murinus, this enclosure would be adapted ?

I've had my HCM in a Reptizoo tall with tops vents like yours for ages - never had a single problem with the ventilation whatsoever.

Do you mean Ornithoctoninae sp "Ho Chi Minh"? Lucky you, what a gorgeous species!
It's a good news, I will be able to put any species without worrying too much about the ventilation !
A big thank you to all

 

[arthurliuyz]

Not African but I had also thought about Ephebopus murinus, this enclosure would be adapted ?

Yes.

Do you mean Ornithoctoninae sp "Ho Chi Minh"? Lucky you, what a gorgeous species!

Yup! She is very pretty indeed.

0.1 Ornithoctoninae sp. "Ho Chi Minh" DCF

• arthurliuyz
• Aug 25, 2022
• 7
• ornithoctoninae sp. "ho chi minh"

This was when I unboxed her, haven't been able to get a good pic since because of her reclusiveness.

Sorry for the off-topic talk.

 

[Dorifto]

I may have misspoken when I said cross ventilation.
I meant high ventilation on the lid, accompanied by low ventilation on one side to ensure an air change cycle.

No worries!!

Lateral ventilation, specially at substrate level helps keeping the air moving, creating more efficient convection zones, helping to keep the enclosure pretty stable humidity wise, as it helps raising the substrate moisture through the air. But top vented systems also can achieve same or better results, all will depend on the amount of air that it allows to exchange.

 

[Yama777]

No worries!!

Lateral ventilation, specially at substrate level helps keeping the air moving, creating more efficient convection zones, helping to keep the enclosure pretty stable humidity wise, as it helps raising the substrate moisture through the air. But top vented systems also can achieve same or better results, all will depend on the amount of air that it allows to exchange.

I just have to choose the species that will live in the enclosure then! Thanks for your help

 

[eoin]

Yeah iv got a pterinochilus chordatus and seems quite happy in dryish substrate. Use cocofiber as it seems to hold it's shape well for their burrows and tunnels. Bit of moss too to hold the humidity... I don't dampen the soil. I mist the very very rare time and let it dry out. other than that just overfill the water dish once in a while. Ventilation iv got top and side.

 

[BoyFromLA]

First of all, gosh I love Reptizoo enclosures, period.

Second of all, if you are going to put fossorial species in there (the one in the picture), I’d rather worry more about the depth, not about ventilation.

 

[ccTroi]

Not African but I had also thought about Ephebopus murinus, this enclosure would be adapted ?

E. murinus would do great!

You can keep moisture dependent species in that. I would focus more on keeping bottom substrate layer moist, not wet. A slight darker coloration is enough. Top half of substrate can be dry. Allow the whole substrate to dry out. I would put my Chilobrachys spp. in that, and I think they'd do great. Humidity will be fine in that. Also, you'll be keeping an adult specimen so they'll be established and more hardy. Certainly African species will do great in that. Though they will most likely web the enclosure rather than burrowing like your P. murinus.

Dave's Little Beasties on YouTube keeps many of his Asian fossorials and other moisture dependent species in enclosures similar to what you posted.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

First of all, gosh I love Reptizoo enclosures, period.

Second of all, if you are going to put fossorial species in there (the one in the picture), I’d rather worry more about the depth, not about ventilation.

I’ve never had one of those tanks , but I’d imagine ventilation ain’t a problem if anything id expect it would prevent mold and stagnant air by allowing more circulation . I’m not a fan of those style lids although I use a few . As long as a T is a Burrower or a non climbing terrestrial your fine . I had a king baboon once but it had a bad molt and wouldn’t eat after that. It did great in a pretzel jar lol

 

[Yama777]

E. murinus would do great!

You can keep moisture dependent species in that. I would focus more on keeping bottom substrate layer moist, not wet. A slight darker coloration is enough. Top half of substrate can be dry. Allow the whole substrate to dry out. I would put my Chilobrachys spp. in that, and I think they'd do great. Humidity will be fine in that. Also, you'll be keeping an adult specimen so they'll be established and more hardy. Certainly African species will do great in that. Though they will most likely web the enclosure rather than burrowing like your P. murinus.

Dave's Little Beasties on YouTube keeps many of his Asian fossorials and other moisture dependent species in enclosures similar to what you posted.

I have a beautiful adult female Chilobrachys fimbriatus that will need a rehouse soon, I'll put her in this tank then! She webs like crazy even though she has a lot of substrate at her disposal!