Are Funnel Web Spiders (Atracidae) now considered Tarantulas after being reclassified under Avicularioida? (they were formerly put under Atypoidea)

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

I just learned about the phylogentic placement change even though it seems this was known to science for at least 4 years?
Who has a phylogenetic tree that is up to date for all spider clades?

 

[The Snark]

Most up to date I'm seeing is they are Mygalomorphae, clade Avicularioidea, moved back to the Atracidae family in 2018. Not sure who or why they were placed in the Atypoidea clade. Tarantulas are in the Theraphosidae family.

Who has a phylogenetic tree that is up to date for all spider clades?

Web search for cladeograms of spiders.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

Most up to date I'm seeing is they are Mygalomorphae, clade Avicularioidea, moved back to the Atracidae family in 2018. Not sure who or why they were placed in the Atypoidea clade. Tarantulas are in the Theraphosidae family.


Web search for cladeograms of spiders.

Already doing that, lots of results, its how I found this out.
Was hoping somone had a source for which was the newset molecular one.

 

[The Snark]

Was hoping somone had a source for which was the newset molecular one.

Well you're looking for this, but the book(S) are being written as we search. I doubt there is one complete compendium of the data.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cla.12557

" All major clades that were obtained in the most recent transcriptomes-based study (Kallal et al., 2021a) and UCEs-based study (Kulkarni et al., 2021) were recovered in this study with both UCE and Combined datasets. These lineages include, for example, Araneae, Mesothelae, Opisthothelae, Mygalomorphae, Avicularioidea, Atypoidea, Araneomorphae, Hypochilidae+Filistatidae, Synspermiata, Austrochiloidea, Palpimanoidea, Nicodamoidea, Retrolateral tibial apophysis (RTA) clade, and Araneoidea. A general structure of relationships between these major lineages are shown in Fig. 3 and their family-level relationships are shown in Fig. 4."

 

[viper69]

I just learned about the phylogentic placement change even though it seems this was known to science for at least 4 years?
Who has a phylogenetic tree that is up to date for all spider clades?

Scientists

 

[Brewser]

I Classify Them As Badass Spiders
They Certainly Demand Respect!
Speed, Fangs, Venom & Attitude

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

I Classify Them As Badass Spiders
They Certainly Demand Respect!
Speed, Fangs, Venom & Attitude

Valid.

Well you're looking for this, but the book(S) are being written as we search. I doubt there is one complete compendium of the data.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cla.12557

" All major clades that were obtained in the most recent transcriptomes-based study (Kallal et al., 2021a) and UCEs-based study (Kulkarni et al., 2021) were recovered in this study with both UCE and Combined datasets. These lineages include, for example, Araneae, Mesothelae, Opisthothelae, Mygalomorphae, Avicularioidea, Atypoidea, Araneomorphae, Hypochilidae+Filistatidae, Synspermiata, Austrochiloidea, Palpimanoidea, Nicodamoidea, Retrolateral tibial apophysis (RTA) clade, and Araneoidea. A general structure of relationships between these major lineages are shown in Fig. 3 and their family-level relationships are shown in Fig. 4."

THANK YOU!!
i wish there was something I could subscribe to in order to get notified when changes happen in phylogentic trees.
it can be such a pain to do all the searching and then a few years later they re-organize a ton of it and I have to look it up all over again lol.

Update: Your link is providing so much data! Not only did it confirm that Atrax and Hadronyche funnel webs (as well as Missulena mouse spiders ) as being part of avicularioida, but also that Macrothele funnel webs are as well, but on the opposite side of the family tree. Meaning that huge shiny black funnel web mygalomorphs with huge red chelicera and long spinnerettes evolved more than once.

I also found out a trapdoor spider named Bertmanius tingle exists lol, and that Giaus villosus can live up to 43 years! O-O

 

[The Snark]

i wish there was something I could subscribe to in order to get notified when changes happen in phylogentic trees.

Welcome to the world of cutting edge science. Some institutes maintain a staff of lay persons just doing research on what research is going on in order to prevent 'reinventing the wheel' so to speak. I did a few stints at Cal Tech trying to keep track of publications and ongoing studies in the early bio-genetics field. Many generations of advances down the road their studies were the foundation of, among other things, developing the Covid vaccines. Our lab was focused on RNA of rat liver molecules.
What I contributed and if it was of any use I have no idea but I did develop a knack at doing research, speed read scanning the new publications for specific catch words.

One stumbling block a person like yourself will constantly come across are pay or privacy walls. Why write a research grant and jump through hoops of fire to obtain funding when you can plagiarize some other institutes work?

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

One stumbling block a person like yourself will constantly come across are pay or privacy walls.

This has actually been the biggest problem for me. In the 1990s there was a fair amount of feild guides, visual animal encyclopedias, natural history books, and research publications that were sold to people in book stores and were VERY comprehensive in terms of species count, habitat, lifestyle, reproduction, local, time period, and phylogeny.

But as the internet took over, its become nearly impossible to find any of that. Most scientific information gets locked behind some secret paywalled society with embargos and no discernable way in, and it makes it really hard to be a customer of that sort of content.

I have well over 400 books on my wall, many of which are outdated, but still far more detailed and full of species than anything thats come out in the last decade and a half or so.
These are what I read instead of novels (well, that and comics/manga, but I read those far less often).

Ecdysozoa is especially difficult when trying to find phylogenetic trees that incorportate both molecular phylogeny for extant species, and tie them into morphological phylogeny to place all of the extinct branches mixed in with the extant ones.

So I'm sitting here just stabbing a guess on where megacheirans go, or trying to redo the entire taxonomy for lobopodia since its a waste bin grouping. I'ts an organizational nightmare...

I think the only thing more frustrating in evolutionary biology is trying to figure out what sauropod faces looked like (especially macronarians).

How do I get an in?

 

[The Snark]

How do I get an in?

You can't. The big problem is the funding. The sources all want the biggest bang for their buck. Iron clad assurances of proprietary are mandatory. An institute that gets a rep for a data leak might as well close it's doors. It's all so up to the minute cutting edge science. Five years ago an omnivalent Covid vaccine was a pie in the sky dream shot. Now old news and profit margins razor thin.
And as for present day tech, I've got a spider on the waiting list for a DNA type match. It's been 7 years now. Nowhere near enough lab techs and equipment available to keep up with the demand.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

The sources all want the biggest bang for their buck. Iron clad assurances of proprietary are mandatory. An institute that gets a rep for a data leak might as well close it's doors. It's all so up to the minute cutting edge science. Five years ago an omnivalent Covid vaccine was a pie in the sky dream shot. Now old news and profit margins razor thin.

You are making is sound like pharmacutical / medical companies and animal product companies are the only ones funding genetic studies now....
In what world do they even care about paleontology and phylogentics?

You can't. The big problem is the funding
Nowhere near enough lab techs and equipment available to keep up with the demand.

I can't get access to data in order to volunteer to organize said data, because they don't have enough people to organize data?!!
What?!

 

[darkness975]

This has actually been the biggest problem for me. In the 1990s there was a fair amount of feild guides, visual animal encyclopedias, natural history books, and research publications that were sold to people in book stores and were VERY comprehensive in terms of species count, habitat, lifestyle, reproduction, local, time period, and phylogeny.

But as the internet took over, its become nearly impossible to find any of that. Most scientific information gets locked behind some secret paywalled society with embargos and no discernable way in, and it makes it really hard to be a customer of that sort of content.

I miss the days of past.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

I miss the days of past.

If I have anything to say about it, those days are coming back.
Even if I have to fund it myself.

 

[The Snark]

You are making is sound like pharmacutical / medical companies and animal product companies are the only ones funding genetic studies now....
In what world do they even care about paleontology and phylogentics?

Not just that. Many of the largest funding sources simply want assurance their money is being put into the most useful purposes and their investment won't get sold off or pilfered for capital gains elsewhere.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

Not just that. Many of the largest funding sources simply want assurance their money is being put into the most useful purposes and their investment won't get sold off or pilfered for capital gains elsewhere.

Impossible.
Pharmacutical patents only last a few years.
Educational books get resold, stuck in libraries, copied, referenced, etc.
No matter the application, privatizing information is impossible.
I made KFC at home using Todd Wilber's books.
I can draw animals pretty well, and am only getting better at it. if I want to accurately draw something, I'm going to find out everything about it, draw it, and that art, even if sold, copyrighted, etc, is still going to end up free on the net at some point because I can't stop anyone from taking a photo of it.

You can't hide information, you can only make it take longer to find.
You do science research because you love science and/or the things you are studying, anyone doing it soley for longterm profit is fooling themselves.

 

[The Snark]

Impossible.

The philanthropists and altruistic entities aren't looking to comer markets or make profits. They basically just want the funds to go to worthwhile endeavors. The overall plan is to disseminate the knowledge gained by their investments for beneficial purposes without the monies being diverted towards more selfish pursuits.
To which a few million cynics will sneer at those words.
But I've seen the benefactors in action. Taking inventories and interviewing lab techs in the departments of Cal Tech and JPL. An obvious boardroom tycoon and retinue gowned up in PPEs in the middle of an epidemic zone, appraising the efforts and asking what other kinds of help would be useful. The Gates foundation storming in, turning an abandoned ramshackle church into essentially a brand new building stocked with books and bookshelves, computers and internet connect funded in perpetuity.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

The philanthropists and altruistic entities aren't looking to comer markets or make profits. They basically just want the funds to go to worthwhile endeavors. The overall plan is to disseminate the knowledge gained by their investments for beneficial purposes without the monies being diverted towards more selfish pursuits.

That seems like a complete 180 to what you were implying earlier.
If thats the case why can't I get an in?
How is assisting in compiling a more complete tree of life for reference, not aligned as a beneficial purpose?

 

[The Snark]

If thats the case why can't I get an in?

You want in on the development phase. When the white papers are published access will open up.

 

[Arachnopotamus Rex]

You want in on the development phase. When the white papers are published access will open up.

I want access to the published papers and photos of the material.

To compare data between them, examine them for miscalculations, misinterpretations, contradictions, continuity errors, accidental use of outdated data, etc.

I want to cross reference it all, cobble them all together into one giant resource.
I want a collection of every up to date published paper for molecular and fossil phylogenetics.
Having all the information scattered sucks.

The tree of life web project attempted to do a rudimentary version of what I intend on doing with all of that, but abandoned it.
Theirs didn't include most taxa, left entire branches empty, and didn't have information about each listed species, nor illustrations or photos.

 

[The Snark]

I want to cross reference it all, cobble them all together into one giant resource.
I want a collection of every up to date published paper for molecular and fossil phylogenetics.

Honestly, for that degree of access you're going to need a fellowship. Or possibly fudge your way in chumming up to a lab or institute as a potential apprenticeship candidate. Maybe write up a draft of an intended dissertation and circulate it.