Arboreal Set-ups

[mrturveydrop]

I have a collection of terrariums that house Red-Eyed Tree Frogs, Fire-Bellied Toads and various Anoles. Now, I'm getting my first T (A. versicolor - an adult). I've kept many other creatures in these systems for quite a long time now, but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. FYI - The T's terrarium is a 30 gallon tall with plant-gro light bulbs, a substrate of 3" sterilized potting mix (no chemicals added) over a layer of peat over a layer of activated charcoal, over 2" of coarse aquarium gravel (also sterilized). Temp: 75-78 day, 68-70 night, and on average 76-78% humidity. It has driftwood (aquarium grade), many tropical plants, and a waterdish (new addition for the T).

 

[Mina]

I have a collection of terrariums that house Red-Eyed Tree Frogs, Fire-Bellied Toads and various Anoles. Now, I'm getting my first T (A. versicolor - an adult). I've kept many other creatures in these systems for quite a long time now, but was wondering if anyone had any thoughts. FYI - The T's terrarium is a 30 gallon tall with plant-gro light bulbs, a substrate of 3" sterilized potting mix (no chemicals added) over a layer of peat over a layer of activated charcoal, over 2" of coarse aquarium gravel (also sterilized). Temp: 75-78 day, 68-70 night, and on average 76-78% humidity. It has driftwood (aquarium grade), many tropical plants, and a waterdish (new addition for the T).

Hi and welcome to the boards!!! My first thought on reading your post is that a 30 gallon is to big for a T. Many people don't ever put their T's in anything bigger than a 5 gallon. The gro lighting needs to go, T's don't like light and don't need the heat from it. Get rid of the charcoal and the gravel. Most people use organic potting soil or peat moss for substrate. Temp and humidity seem okay, although some people say avics need 80% humidity. The dirftwood is fine. The plants may make it so you never see your T. The water dish is a must, but don't put a sponge in it. Hope that helped.

 

[TheDarkFinder]

30 gallon is ok. A little big but since you are making a vivirium, it is ok. Keep the lights, tarantulas are diural and do like to have good lighting, and so does your plants. Do provide a peice of cork bark so the little vesi can hide, some thing the light can not get into. Do not listen to MINA. Mina is very focused on the taratula and not its living conditions. You can use or not use the water dish. With 70-80% humidity your vesi will be find with what she gets from spraying and food.

Keep the gravel. You will need it for drainage. You could get rid of the characoal. It may go bad too soon and you will have to change it anyway.

I would go with a coco fiber and a light fertilzer, instead of the poting soil and peat.
Coco fiber is not decaying material, there for will not attract mites and mold.

Maybe a bamboo post.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=19799&highlight=bamboo
scroll down to Post #16. <edit> or #6 </edit>

With the light 12 on 12 off.
You know what to do.

Now post pictures for us.
thedarkfinder

 

[MindUtopia]

30 gallon is ok. A little big but since you are making a vivirium, it is ok. Keep the lights, tarantulas are diural and do like to have good lighting, and so does your plants. Do provide a peice of cork bark so the little vesi can hide, some thing the light can not get into. Do not listen to MINA. Mina is very focused on the taratula and not its living conditions. You can use or not use the water dish. With 70-80% humidity your vesi will be find with what she gets from spraying and food.

Keep the gravel. You will need it for drainage. You could get rid of the characoal. It may go bad too soon and you will have to change it anyway.

I would go with a coco fiber and a light fertilzer, instead of the poting soil and peat.
Coco fiber is not decaying material, there for will not attract mites and mold.

Maybe a bamboo post.
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=19799&highlight=bamboo
scroll down to Post #16. <edit> or #6 </edit>

With the light 12 on 12 off.
You know what to do.

Now post pictures for us.
thedarkfinder

I'd have to say I disagree with your recommendations for keeping the light. I have nine Avicularia of various species, including 2 A. versicolor, and don't use any lights or artificial heating. With the exception of one sling, I've never lost an Avic with this method. Lights are not necessary for heat and if your only real purpose for using them is for your plants, I'd personally suggest getting rid of the plants. Your Avic will more than likely just hide from the light and never be seen. Your main concern should of course be the healthy and well-being of your tarantula rather than what's in its environment. I would also recommend keeping the dish. Your T will get a good bit of its water from food, but a water dish is a good safeguard against dehydration in my opinion. I often see my Avics drink. Just my two cents.

 

[mrturveydrop]

Well, that certainly is a lot of different advice! I've never had charcoal go bad in any of my terrariums, but I will definitely look into that. The lighting situation is of course very important for the plants, and there is quite a lot of dark hiding places for the Avic in there. My main goal is to create a natural enviroment, which has worked very well for the vertibrates I keep, for the T as well. Losing the plants, the soil, or any of the other parts of the whole seems counter-productive to me. I can't imagine that this type of spider lives in a barren enviroment in nature, but I will keep a very close eye on her, and will remove her to a simpler setup if need be. Thanks again for all your input.

 

[Pennywise]

One obvious reason

For a small setup is feeding. How long would it take for a 1 1/2 Versi to
find a 1/2 inch cricket in a 30 gallon tank Add a bunch of decorations
and the cricket would die of old age before it gets eaten. For 1 1/2"
Versi I use 40 Dram Vials. Adults will do well in 2 1/2 gallon jars. No
lighting is necessary and can cause too much heat and dry air in most
cases. Reptile and amphibian environments are not necessarily compatible
with Tarantulas. T's have their own requirements.

 

[Thoth]

Well, that certainly is a lot of different advice! I've never had charcoal go bad in any of my terrariums, but I will definitely look into that. The lighting situation is of course very important for the plants, and there is quite a lot of dark hiding places for the Avic in there. My main goal is to create a natural enviroment, which has worked very well for the vertibrates I keep, for the T as well. Losing the plants, the soil, or any of the other parts of the whole seems counter-productive to me. I can't imagine that this type of spider lives in a barren enviroment in nature, but I will keep a very close eye on her, and will remove her to a simpler setup if need be. Thanks again for all your input.

THis issue is just in a thirty gallon is quite large and as a result you will a) rarely see it and b) make it difficult for your t to readily find prey. You'd give the cricket way to many hiding places and you might very easily end up with a pinhead infestation. People would say but a t can catch prey easily in nature and nature is much bigger than any terrarium but prey is at a much higher density in nature than a few crickets in a terrarium.

Most ts are nocturnal/crepuscular and not diurnal including new world arboreals

Charcoal doesn't go bad per se. What characol does is acts like a sponge absorbing various chemical, toxin, odors et c. It will eventually becomes saturated and leech whatever it has absorbed. Also any substrate even coco nut fiber if kept damp will invite mold and mites.

There are two schools of t setup out there the simple/minimalist, prevalent here in the US and the naturalistic, more common in Europe. Both have pluses and minuses. If you want to create a naturalistic setup do so in a smaller tank I would not go bigger than a ten gallon set on end like in the link posted by darkfinder.

 

[pokiecollector]

Sounds cool !

 

[snoflax]

For a small setup is feeding. How long would it take for a 1 1/2 Versi to
find a 1/2 inch cricket in a 30 gallon tank Add a bunch of decorations
and the cricket would die of old age before it gets eaten.

This is very true. We have 8 avics at this time. They don't really hunt much, most prefer to just hang around and wait for dinner to wander by. If you have too many plants and decorations they almost never get thier meal.
Also too many places for crickets to hide can lead to infestation of pinheads, which can stress your T out. And all those hidden crickets can be a danger to your T when it molts.
The lights are another problem. Ts prefer darkness or very low amounts of light. Avicularia live in trees, they are protected in their natural enviroment by the tree branches and leaves. The canopy of the forest protects them from the sun and the heat. They wont have that in a vivarium even with a hide, with grow lights it is liable to get way too hot for the T. This can cause dehydration, as well as stress on your T
I have never observed any of our avics drinking from a water dish, but I still provide one for each of our Ts, if nothing else the evaporating water puts a bit of moisture in the air for them.
You will also need to make sure they have good ventilation, avics can die from stagnant air

I understand the idea of wanting to make a "natural" environment for your versi to live in, however realistically it just isnt possible to recreate their natural environment in captivity. You can create an enviroment that is visually pleasing to you. But no matter how hard you try you cannot recreate the conditions in which your T would be living in the wild. The best we can do as hobbyists is to create the best enviroment we can for a T living in captivity. which means providing them with a safe and healthy enviroment with adequate food, water and air, and free from things which are liable to stress the T out. Anything we do beyond that is purely for our benefit not the Ts.

 

[Nate]

I think the largest disadvantage having a 30 gallon tank it reduces your space for expanding your future collection.

 

[TheDarkFinder]

mrturveydrop
Please look around before you rip apart your terrium. The 11 Avics I have perfer dead prey. I feed roaches.

30 is not too big. They live in the WILD and do not have a problem with hunting prey.

And yes Tarantulas DO PERFER A DIRUAL CYCLE.
thedarkfinder

 

[Thoth]

Info from the British Tarantula Society on new world arboreals
http://www.thebts.co.uk/New World Arboreal Tarantulas.htm

from the article:

In captivity, most New World arboreal tarantulas are shy and retiring, and are generally inactive during diurnal (day light) periods. As most tarantula species are active during crepuscular (dawn and dusk) and/or nocturnal (night) periods in the wild, most will replicate this behaviour in captivity. Few specimens will be seen moving about their containers during day light periods. Most will begin actively moving about their containers during the late evening hours. Many will become active during overcast days or if maintained in vivaria or in rooms with decreased light levels.

Again in nature Insects are found at densities of hundreds per square (or cubed) foot in tropical forests. a thirty gallon is about 6 cubed feet, even if you toss in 5 or 6 crickets at a time. Still far fewer prey items per unit of area.

Using the 30 gal. terrarium is doable its just not ideal. the set up sounds better suited for a T.blondi or other very large t