Animal care myths

[skinheaddave]

Okay, everyone knows the standard animal care myths (corn snakes eat people, horned frogs come from the sahara and iguanas like KD -- but only the really cheesy kind), but I want to know about the other myths.

Over the years, I have read a LOT about the care of various animals. Often, you get quite a good consensus across the board about how a certain animal should be kept. There are sometimes even scientific justifications for these points. Over the years, I have also learned who has the reputation when it comes to one species or another. You know, those wizards who have been captive breeding species x for twelve years where others just can't make it work. More and more, I am finding out that these people are breaking all the rules.

So I want to know what people have discovered -- either first or second hand -- that goes against the grain. I'll start off with some things I've come across. Keep in mind that these are not things that I necessarily condone.

- the animals that actualy need UV light may be only a small subset of the animals that are supposed to need it
- communal enclosures, even multi-species ones, may not be as bad as most people would have you believe
- humidity levels may or may not be as important as people think. high-humidity species may not need it and low-humidity species may need higher humidity
- the amount of space a creature needs may actualy be largely overestimated
- temps that are too cold may not be. temps that are too hot might also not be

That's all I can think of for now. I've left things intentionaly vague for now, as I have personal experiences with only a few. Anyhow, I'm looking for input on how your knowledg may deviate from the "common" knowledge.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Crotalus]

I noticed that some people think that animals from arid or desert areas dont need much water...
So wrong.
Another mistake is to never hibernate their animals if needed.
Or stress the hell out of lizards because they do believe reptiles enjoy human companions.


/Lelle

 

[Reitz]

I would say the two big ones are goldfish and hermit crabs.

Goldfish--esp. fancy ones, require about a 55 gallon tank to survive though adulthood. They're also bottom feeders, and MUST have a filter.

Hermit crabs are high humidity animals that need a deep substrate to burrow in and drift wood to climb on. Wire mesh is aweful for their legs, and allows for way too much ventilation.

Chris

 

[Wade]

The classic pet store myth is "it won't outgrow it's cage". Many innapropriate pets have been sold using that lie. The original owner of my 18 inch Florida softshell turtle was told that it woudn't outgrow a 30 gallon aquarium!

I think Dave is talking about the orthodox husbandry methods within the hobby, not so much the out-and-out lies that circulate in the pet stores and out-of-date books.

There seems to be a standardized list of rules regarding the care requirements of most popular reptiles. Such as snake cages should be at least 1.5 times as long as the snake and at least half as wide. In reality, this is just a rule of thumb and many species can do fine with much less, while others may need much more. With lizards, UV is almost always recomended with any diurnal species, but in truth many could probably do without it.

I think the standardized list of care requirements is generally a good thing for newbies. You need to know the rules before you can really start bending and breaking them.

My first exotic pet (as an adult) was a Burmese python, purchased as an 18 inch baby. I did nearly everything wrong, there wasn't much information available at the time and the internet was not a hosehold word yet. I used a hot rock as her primary heat source for the first 4 years of her life. She lived in many cold apartments (with nothing but the too-hot hot rock), and I didn't know about the imprortance of humidity. She was underfed, as I was led to believe she only needed one or two mice a week. If you listen to the current othodoxy, my snake should have died years ago, but she didn't. She never even got sick, to this day she's never been to a vet. When I did finally get some good husbandry information, I realized I had been doing many things wrong. I switched to an under-the-cage heat mat, controlled with a rheostat (of course, there are those who will swear up and down that you simply MUST use a heat source from above). Realizing that here growth was probably stunted due to inadaquate diet, I upped her feeding. She caught up, at 14 feet and 120 pounds, she may not be as big as some other burms her age (15 years), but there's nothing puny about her! I still keep her at more or less room temperature (for me around 75 f winter and 85 summer) with a large heat mat (4' x 1') under her cage. She eats several large chickens once month (oh no! not supposed to do that either, they'll die from samonella!). I bred her several times, and only stopped because I decided there were enough unwanted Burmese pythons in the world. She lives in a cage with pvc-coated wire sides, again the orthodox view is that this resullts in too-low humidity, but I accomodate for this by periodically soaking her and covering the cage with plastic during the driest (winter months).

While my experience would indicate that the standard husbandry rules don't always apply, I would never recomend my husbandry practices to someone new to the hobby asking for advice. When asked, I go with the more standard recomendations. I would never recomend a hot rock, restricted feeding or keeping them in a cool room! The convetional recomendations are usually a good starting point for the new hobbyist. As they learn, they figure out on their own which rules can be bent.

Wade

 

[Wade]

Re: Re: Animal care myths

Originally posted by Crotalus
Or stress the hell out of lizards because they do believe reptiles enjoy human companions.


/Lelle

Don't get me started on the "Iguana People". By that, I mean the people who are convinced that their iguana loves them. I had one guy tell me that he could tell his iguana loved to be handled and stroked because it would close it's eyes in apparent ecstasy! Trying to explain to him that the lizard was simply stressed to the point of being overwelmed was a complete waste of time.

It happens with other lizards too, but those iguana people...

Wade

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Yep, the lizard closes its eyes in a last ditch attempt......

"If I can't see you, maybe you can't see me."


Another myth that irks me is that "dogs/cats can't have people food or they will die!" I fed my labrador and my collie veggies and fruit, cooked and raw, and they both had beautiful, glossy coats and never had dry skin.
I read a book once, the author escapes me, but he said that before pet food for dogs came out they had a much longer life expectancy. Due to a more varied and nutritionally sound diet.
Pet food companies try to get you to believe that people food is bad because they want to sell more product, not because it is healthier.

 

[skinheaddave]

On the flip side of that, however, most dogs and cats WILL die if fed the standard student diet. I'm not even sure why I'm still alive!

Cheers,
Dave

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Ok, Ok Dave..... I would never recommend student-issue over good home cookin'!! Not for me, you, or anyone!! Who ever thought that pizza and corn was a good combination???

 

[Reitz]

I realize that this is getting a little off topic, but I don't know what you guys are talking about. The dining service here at Vassar College is down right gourmet--and they're always trying new things. For example, last week they thought it would be a good idea to make sushi--except, of course, that sushi fish is too expensive, so they used that fake seafood salad stuff, and instead of sushi rice they used barely cooked white rice. And instead of wasabi they used horseradish. Ok, bad example. But we do have egg pizza for breakfast every day--alright, another bad example.

In all seriousness, I went in for breakfast one day (which I only catch if I've been up all night) and asked if the eggs they used in the "omlets" were real. The guy said they were excellent. Then I asked again, same answer. It took me three tries to realize he was saying "EGGcellent," which is an egg substitute. Mmmm . . . good ole' fashioned home cookin'

Chris

 

[skinheaddave]

Classy! Actualy, the food when I was at Queen's for a year was pretty good -- or rather, it was all you can eat. I was actualy housed on West campus, which was 15 minutes walk to campus but made up for it by the fact that they were only cooking for a couple hundred, not a few thousand. Good stuff. About half-way through the year, people caught on and would phone up the food line to find out what was for lunch the next day. If it was philly steak they would all take the bus out to eat with us.

And now, so that I don't have to use my moderator powers to move this thread ...

I think it all boils down to experience and knowledge. While some of the myths are probably just designed to make a buck (or make the teller feel self-important), I would have to agree with Wade that there are definitely areas I would not recommend a novice experiment with. For example, I eventualy intend to get a dog, and while I may do research and experiment on home cooked dog chow, I will likely start out like everyone else on a staple dog food. Something like they serve Chris (well, to be fair, you haven't developed scurvey, have you?) I just wouldn't feel confident enough going out on my own based on the one nutrition course I was forced to sleep through .. errr, take.

Now, while all the ideas here are interesting, Wade definitely had the right idea. I am looking for the ones that break the conventions set by the "good keepers." The things that people who should "know better" do and benefit by. Any others?

Cheers,
Dave

P.S. I have none of the delusions of the "iguana people," but it is also folly, in my eyes, to believe that all animals are scared of us. I have no belief that my monitor "loves" me, but he is sure as hell comfortable coming up to me if he thinks I may have food for him.

 

[Reitz]

On that note, my P. trans (tentitive ID) experiment is along those lines. I haven't given it enough time to have any real results, but the fact that they're sharing a burrow seems to suggest that they are at least slightly more tolerant of each other's company than was previously stated.


I also think that Emps are more communal than people think. I've kept 5 in a 10 gallon for over a year. They're split between two burrows, but have plenty of other options. It seems there's never a loner. In the wild they're been found crammed together in a single terminte mound. The trick is that they need a constant source of food--I put 4 crickets in the tank every other day. This way there's always something for them to eat. I also give them tons of substrate, so their burrows are extensive. I haven't seen one fight, but they mate constantly.

I've never actually shared that thought before because I think it will generate a lot of flack. The standard is 2 emps/10 gallon, but that's just not how they opperate in the wild.


Chris

 

[Wade]

Originally posted by skinheaddave

P.S. I have none of the delusions of the "iguana people," but it is also folly, in my eyes, to believe that all animals are scared of us. I have no belief that my monitor "loves" me, but he is sure as hell comfortable coming up to me if he thinks I may have food for him.

Oh yeah. I have no doubt that many reptiles are very capable of becoming accustomed to a certain amount of interaction with humans, and even positive associations, like food. Back when I used to have a caimen, my wife and I would joke that it's nickname for me was "Food" and my wifes was "Foods Wife (who is also food)". Whenever she or I would go stand near the tank, "Bertha" (one of my few named herps) would raise up and lift "her" head from the water expectantly, ready to snap up whatever I might offer. If nothing was offered, she might just snap at anything that looked close enough.

I've found turtles to be especially responsive in this way. Their heads will pop out of the water whenever a keeper walks by, and swim towards them, hoping for a worm. It is sometimes easy to see how a novice could read more into this type of behaviour than is really there.

Wade

 

[skinheaddave]

Wade,

Sort of gives a new meaning to the term "finger food," doesn't it? I still remember your softshell swimming around its tank following Tamara in the hopes of getting a roach. Every time I joke about getting a turtle, her first response is "softshell?"

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Gillian]

Dave,
My sis, at one time, had snakes. She functioned under the following illusions, as per their care;
* "Unless you feed snakes live prey, they won't get all the nutrients they need." (note; I realize some do feed live. I'm not picking. Only sharing her viewpoints) To which I answered her,
"Really?! Next time YOU want meat, tell ya what. I'll put you in a pen with a live cow, with a steak knife and a fork. I'm so certain it'll be so much healthier for you if you eat it off of a live animal."
* She also functioned under the delusion that, you can basically feed a snake as to how big you want it to eventually be.
(Am I ever happy she doesn't have "pets" any longer)

Peace, light & eternal love..
Gillian
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