Amblypygid ID help?

[amblypibitch]

This is my first time posting here so apologies in advance if I am doing something wrong!

Got two new tailless whips a week ago, they were advertised as Charon grayi, but from my understanding that ID represents a vast number of species. And these guys honestly look a lot more like P. whitei to me. They’re still juvenile, very small compared to my D. medius and much more interactive.

(Also disclaimer: I don’t handle them, these pictures were from when I was trying to get them out of their store cups and into their enclosures, they chose to run up my fingers lol)

 

[that1ocelot]

Wowee, being advertised as C. Grayi is a new low. As far as I know, they're quite uncommon in the North American hobby, although they are offered.

P. Whitei for sure. Nicaragua in all likelihood.
Most likely wild caught, but look to be in really good shape. There's some really good vendors in the US! A couple on these boards. I'd recommend them, and they won't mislable their animals.

As well, there isn't much shame for handling your animals on this board I find. Of course, it doesn't do anything for them but as long as it's safe and not excessive, I don't find folks say anything

 

[amblypibitch]

Wowee, being advertised as C. Grayi is a new low. As far as I know, they're quite uncommon in the North American hobby, although they are offered.

P. Whitei for sure. Nicaragua in all likelihood.
Most likely wild caught, but look to be in really good shape. There's some really good vendors in the US! A couple on these boards. I'd recommend them, and they won't mislable their animals.

As well, there isn't much shame for handling your animals on this board I find. Of course, it doesn't do anything for them but as long as it's safe and not excessive, I don't find folks say anything

Thank you so much! Yeah haha in the stores defence they are an aquarium store so I’m assuming whoever sold them the whips lied to them that’s okay though I love these little guys and it makes me happy that they’ll stay little!
I’m in Canada, do you know of any good vendors here as well or do the US companies ship to Canada?
Thanks again for your help!

 

[that1ocelot]

Thank you so much! Yeah haha in the stores defence they are an aquarium store so I’m assuming whoever sold them the whips lied to them that’s okay though I love these little guys and it makes me happy that they’ll stay little!
I’m in Canada, do you know of any good vendors here as well or do the US companies ship to Canada?
Thanks again for your help!

I've pm'ed you

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

Agree with ocelot - these are P. whitei. They’re pretty tolerant of occasional handling, and I find all my whips have a tendency to run up my hand when I need to do enclosure work.

I assume ocelot recommended a particular breeder in Ontario - you can usually find their current offerings in the classifieds section here in the forum

 

[amblypibitch]

Agree with ocelot - these are P. whitei. They’re pretty tolerant of occasional handling, and I find all my whips have a tendency to run up my hand when I need to do enclosure work.

I assume ocelot recommended a particular breeder in Ontario - you can usually find their current offerings in the classifieds section here in the forum

They did indeed yes!
And thank you for your help, I’m honestly pretty stoked that these little bebs will stay decently small forever. Also very stoked to have found these forums because I’ve talked to zero other amblypygi owners until now so this is exciting

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

They did indeed yes!
And thank you for your help, I’m honestly pretty stoked that these little bebs will stay decently small forever. Also very stoked to have found these forums because I’ve talked to zero other amblypygi owners until now so this is exciting

I mean I wouldn’t exactly call P. whitei *small*, but certainly they stay a pretty reasonable size. Here’s my adult whitei.



For comparison, the more petite Phrynus barbadensis, also an adult.

 

[amblypibitch]

I mean I wouldn’t exactly call P. whitei *small*, but certainly they stay a pretty reasonable size. Here’s my adult whitei.

View attachment 429977

For comparison, the more petite Phrynus barbadensis, also an adult. View attachment 429978

Ahhhh they’re precious!
Also additional question for you - do your whiteis eat a lot? Because since I got mine they literally don’t stop and I’ve never been concerned about over feeding an amblypygi before but these two are making me question whether or not they have the brain capacity to tell whether or not they’re full…

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

My whitei is a pretty reliable eater. I typically offer one large cricket every 1-2 weeks. She only refuses right before a moult. My Damon diadema and Acanthophrynus coronatus are both a bit more voracious than the P. whitei. The only one I have that doesn’t eat with amazing regularity is the P. barbadensis, but they’re notorious for that. I only bother trying to feed her once every 3-4 weeks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[that1ocelot]

Ahhhh they’re precious!
Also additional question for you - do your whiteis eat a lot? Because since I got mine they literally don’t stop and I’ve never been concerned about over feeding an amblypygi before but these two are making me question whether or not they have the brain capacity to tell whether or not they’re full…

+1 @Albireo Wulfbooper. I keep the Honduras Whitei and Nicaraguan and they are pretty reliable. No need to worry about overfeeding as Albireo alluded amblypygi will just suddenly decide they aren't hungry for several weeks.

On a side note, LOVE barbadensis. I picked up a bunch of babies and I'm excited for them to become little tanks

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

+1 @Albireo Wulfbooper. I keep the Honduras Whitei and Nicaraguan and they are pretty reliable. No need to worry about overfeeding as Albireo alluded amblypygi will just suddenly decide they aren't hungry for several weeks.

On a side note, LOVE barbadensis. I picked up a bunch of babies and I'm excited for them to become little tanks

Ahhh you’ll love them! I’m so pleased for you. Barbadensis are such delightfully chill and compact little critters. Tank is a good word for them - at least by amblypygi standards

I’m sure you’ve been warned about their eating habits and seasonality - mine drove me bonkers with worry until I came to terms with the fact that it just wasn’t going to eat most of the time I love her dearly, though.

 

[that1ocelot]

Ahhh you’ll love them! I’m so pleased for you. Barbadensis are such delightfully chill and compact little critters. Tank is a good word for them - at least by amblypygi standards

I’m sure you’ve been warned about their eating habits and seasonality - mine drove me bonkers with worry until I came to terms with the fact that it just wasn’t going to eat most of the time I love her dearly, though.

Oh my, at least I'll be able to save some money on feeders! My favourite part about Amblypygi is their ease of care. Give them what they need and watch them gooooo. Vacation? That's all good, they didn't want to eat anyway

 

[Purplepuffball]

I mean I wouldn’t exactly call P. whitei *small*, but certainly they stay a pretty reasonable size. Here’s my adult whitei.

View attachment 429977

For comparison, the more petite Phrynus barbadensis, also an adult. View attachment 429978

How is your barbadensis so big? Where is Gil's sourced from? The ones from Orin's stock don't seem to reach nearly as large. Also are you sure that you have whitei? It looks more like my female maesi...

 

[that1ocelot]

How is your barbadensis so big? Where is Gil's sourced from? The ones from Orin's stock don't seem to reach nearly as large. Also are you sure that you have whitei? It looks more like my female maesi...

You'd have to ask him - I imagine @Albireo Wulfbooper has had their Barbadensis for some time, where as mine were hatched recently. Gil has had them for a long time.

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

How is your barbadensis so big? Where is Gil's sourced from? The ones from Orin's stock don't seem to reach nearly as large. Also are you sure that you have whitei? It looks more like my female maesi...

You'd have to ask him - I imagine @Albireo Wulfbooper has had their Barbadensis for some time, where as mine were hatched recently. Gil has had them for a long time.

Yes, I’ve had my barbadensis since early 2019 - I believe it was born in late 2018 or possible right around the turn of the year. I don’t know where he sourced his original barbadensis breeding stock. It’s also worth noting that I’m a woman so my hand size (while not tiny) may be a bit smaller than you’re assuming

As for whitei/maesi - I’m not sure the species are so clearly delineated as to be solidly identifiable based on photos alone, and I know that there is variation in phenotype along their range. I know that Gil identifies these as whitei, so until and unless the species get re-described, that’s what I’m going with, since I have no reason to doubt his ID.

 

[wizentrop]

I see my name mentioned here, but I'm not tagged tsk tsk tsk

The P. barbadensis are from north Colombia. They were considered to be P. gervaisii until they were synonymized with P. barbadensis. Original stock was collected by me in early 2018.

The P. whitei are from central Honduras, again collected by me in early 2017. P. whitei is a very variable species, and for a while now is considered a species complex containing several hidden species. I looked over the ID with two other taxonomists, mine are definitely closer to P. whitei than P. maesi, however I would not be surprised if they will be split into a separate new species in the future.

 

[that1ocelot]

I see my name mentioned here, but I'm not tagged tsk tsk tsk

The P. barbadensis are from north Colombia. They were considered to be P. gervaisii until they were synonymized with P. barbadensis. Original stock was collected by me in early 2018.

The P. whitei are from central Honduras, again collected by me in early 2017. P. whitei is a very variable species, and for a while now is considered a species complex containing several hidden species. I looked over the ID with two other taxonomists, mine are definitely closer to P. whitei than P. maesi, however I would not be surprised if they will be split into a separate new species in the future.

This is the background info to end background info. I didn't know your stock of Phrynus was collected by you!

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

I see my name mentioned here, but I'm not tagged tsk tsk tsk

We were talking about you behind your back. How dare you spy on us