A Difficult Keeper: Argiope aurantia

[ArachnaGerl]

I am not a spider person by any means, but have become one now. My sister had been watching and fell in love with an Argiope in her front yard this summer. Two large egg sacs later and the weather to begin changing soon, I caught her. I first read everything that I could find on the species. I have my undergrad degree in Biology and a medical doctor, but really it doesn't help much except some with reading the scientific publications on them. Anyways, this big girl is apparently of German descent as my sister named her Hermoine and said so. Ok, that's her name and I like the girl, but was absolutely horrified to catch her, but I did it. I joined the board to hopefully help others since I have now had her for over a week in captivity and really enjoying her. I want to help others and share what I have done thus far, So here is what I did, I waited until she was on one of her anchor lines and coming down the line since she had nowhere to go but one direction, down. I placed a large tuppaware directly beneath her as close as I possibly could trying to hold my one hand/arm perfectly steady. Mind you I am on a step stool reaching. With my other hand I had a plastic serving spoon and very very very lightly touched her on the backside and she took a conservative step forward and touched the tupparware top which was slightly angled toward her yet very much under her so if she were to fall she would definitely fall into it. I had the bottom lined with soft paper towels and crumpled toilet paper so if she fell she would not injure, but all the walls of the tupperware were paper free so she wouldnt be able to climb back out. Basically, she walked right in and slipped the rest of the way (not far at all about 2 more inches) due to the slick surface of the tupperware. I topped the tupperware and had a cage 18x18x36 from ReptiBreeze, the all screened type, not glass. I got some fine bark and put some on the bottom with some branches and they sell a bendable fake branch which is nice that runs along the back of the cage up one side, along the top and down the other side, but nothing in the middle of the cage. The first night I found she didnt like the cage upright at 36" high, so I turned it on its side, 36" length and Viola, I found a nice web with a zig zag, but the anchors were weak because she couldnt anchor well to the screen and apparently didnt like or use the branches and insisted on anchoring to the screen frame of the cage. So I got toothpics and cut a little off and blunted the ends stuck in clumps of 3's at various areas around 3 portions of the cage, top and 2 sides and glued them in with a hot glue gun. Not too many areas, just here and there. On the bottom of the cage which is now one of the sides of the cage, I also drew lines with the glue gun horizontally and some areas are sort of thick. There is little need for a sandy bottom but I did leave some at the bottom anyway since it might make clean up easier for me with the carcasses. She has blocked the large front door and I cant use it now since she webs there. The cage has a lower smaller door and I put in moths and crickets that I throw into the web since her web is towards one end of the cage. I think 3 times per week is fine for large crickets and filling in with other flying insects is good and they fly in at their leisure. If I miss throwing a cricket in the web, I just keep grabbing crickets until one gets caught in her web. Can also get superworms, but then messing with the web is a no-no since the worm must literally be gently stuck to and placed onto the web. It is tedious and difficult and risk web flexing and stress. As for water, I take bottled water at room temp in a cup and get my fingers real wet and sprinkle it onto the web and literally droplets onto her. She appears to like it and drinks. But I dont do that if she is eating and I dont get wrapped food wet. I make sure she get direct sunlight when its out. She is on a screened porch. I never mess with that web or she starts web flexing and I dont want her stressed out. Although, I do believe she knows me now because when she does flex the web, its pretty subtle and short these days. Hope my experience helps those who are trying to save winter argiopes. They are fussy and web dwellers dont live long so I have read everywhere. Here are some pictures of Hermoine including the cage and some artistic versions:

 

[Beedrill]

Wow that's some good detailed info. I was thinking about catching one of these at some point as well, but they aren't super common around here. Maybe one day.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

One thing about nature is it is better to watch, but In the case of these guys, they die in the cold, so I guess we are allowed to give it a try. I just hope everyone does them right from the get go. Read a lot about them including scientific publications such as researchgate. Oh, and love them.

 

[Galapoheros]

I was just playing around with one about a week ago at a small house I have out in the boonies. They aren't real common in the central tx area but I've seen literally 1000s of them on flood plain next to rivers in the eastern half of tx. I've never kept one though, if there is one in my yard I just observe them from there and throw a grasshopper or a Chihuahua in the web. Nice setup, I'd keep one now and then if I didn't see them so often as it is. Another you might like is the giant lichen orbweaver(Araneus bicentenarius), I don't know if they are in your range.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

The Orbs must have had a good season this year as they are everywhere here in NC, but this particular one is the largest I have seen. My sister and I just completely modified her cage and cleaned it yesterday. I have still not been happy with her web anchorage. So this time we rearranged her whole cage. We placed most of the branches (with not many offshoots), just primarily straight, yet bendable types towards the back of the cage and secured with hot glue gun. Attached we used fake flowers and leaves for some additional anchorage. We also hot glued a long, slender straight, yet straight branched stick (the stick was essentially flat with branching) to the top of the cage along with a fake, flat fern leaf. We also put 2 straight plastic stems on diagonally angled on each side of the cage (about 15-16") and hot glued the bases only in place which we did with the others as well. Hot glued to bottom of cage only so there is still some play in these branches like in nature. Well, it worked well and much much better then the glued in toothpick tops (which I removed completely). I also put several strips of hot glue along the top and sides of the screens and took my finger (with leather gloves on of course) and smashed it into the screen which gave her something for her feet to grasp onto in certain sections and providing for additional anchorage. It is all coming together nicely and she seems happy and built a more secure web this time. She will get a cricket today too. My cage is a great cage and the screen looks good, but it must have powder coating paint on the screen which makes the screen way too slick for her to anchor her webbing. I watched her and when she wiggles her spinerettes, I just does not stick for initial anchor bases. Now that she has more things for anchorage, I do see a difference! This has been quite a learning experience for me. I continue to be fascinated by this creature who has nothing but a will to live. Her life is her web. And as odd as it seems, she is getting used to me. She flexes her web when I come around to feed her, but it is becoming less and less, as if she identifies my presence as non-threatening. The Orbs are smart as I read from scientific publications. I will continue to update as all I want to do is help others do the right thing for these guys (gals). I do believe if one is planning to take one in and try their luck to save them thru the winter that it has to be done right or the creature will suffer and be "unhappy." Rather to die naturally than have that happen. I have worked so hard for this little thing and definitely would not go looking to "own" a spider as a "pet" as it is her who knows she isn't owned nor is she my pet. I think it may just be the other way around for this nature lover. Ha!

 

[schmiggle]

This is a wonderful project. I've really enjoyed following it.

Are you sure she recognizes you personally? I used to think my salamanders knew me, but in fact they had just learned to recognize people in general, because they reacted the same to my brother and grandmother.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

I don't think personal recognition in the literal sense of the word more than it is just getting used my vibrations when I enter the cage to feed her. I've been researching as much as I can find looking over the anatomy and just about anything else I can find specific to these guys. I see no olfactory sensing system listed anywhere, so don't think she can ID via smell sense or pheromones. Best guess is she is used to my vibrations, i.e. recognition, which I would say is unique to some degree to each human who would enter the cage. So in a sense, she may be identifying me personally since my vibrations have to be different from anothers approaching the cage if comparing mine to theirs, although similar. Again, From researching, they are incredibly keen to vibratory sense more than anything else. They have poor vision and do think they have auditory sensory organs either. I will keep researching. It's got me fascinated!!!

 

[schmiggle]

I don't think personal recognition in the literal sense of the word more than it is just getting used my vibrations when I enter the cage to feed her. I've been researching as much as I can find looking over the anatomy and just about anything else I can find specific to these guys. I see no olfactory sensing system listed anywhere, so don't think she can ID via smell sense or pheromones. Best guess is she is used to my vibrations, i.e. recognition, which I would say is unique to some degree to each human who would enter the cage. So in a sense, she may be identifying me personally since my vibrations have to be different from anothers approaching the cage if comparing mine to theirs, although similar. Again, From researching, they are incredibly keen to vibratory sense more than anything else. They have poor vision and do think they have auditory sensory organs either. I will keep researching. It's got me fascinated!!!

It should be pretty easy to test. Get a few other people to walk by and see how she reacts. If she reacts differently to them than to you, then she at a minimum can tell the difference between people.

 

[FrDoc]

@ArachnaGerl You are doing exactly what you should, research, and it seems as if you are doing it well. If you do not have it, I would highly recommend Rainer Foelix’, Biology of Spiders. It is a bit pricey, but worth every penny if you are going to be serious about this interest, and desire to learn about spider anatomy. There are sections on functional anatomy and neurobiology that deal with all of the questions you bring up in your post as to how spiders perceive. Keep up the good work!

P. S. I do have to throw the disagree flag on you about your specimen recognizing your individual vibrations. It perceives that you are merely something bigger that is dangerous, and will react in one of three ways, stay put until you go away, flight, or fight. It will never recognize you as a friend, or provider.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

That is a fabulous idea! Now lets see who will be brave enough to stick their hand into the cage with a cricket or worm. Ha.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

@ArachnaGerl You are doing exactly what you should, research, and it seems as if you are doing it well. If you do not have it, I would highly recommend Rainer Foelix’, Biology of Spiders. It is a bit pricey, but worth every penny if you are going to be serious about this interest, and desire to learn about spider anatomy. There are sections on functional anatomy and neurobiology that deal with all of the questions you bring up in your post as to how spiders perceive. Keep up the good work!

P. S. I do have to throw the disagree flag on you about your specimen recognizing your individual vibrations. It perceives that you are merely something bigger that is dangerous, and will react in one of three ways, stay put until you go away, flight, or fight. It will never recognize you as a friend, or provider.

I will look into that book. I was saying in reference to vibratory sense though. It seems that her web flexing is getting less intense and shorter duration over time now as I have to get in the cage to some degree and put up a cricket or super worm. So isn't it that she is becoming accustomed to this interaction? Perhaps, just that it is becoming a usual environmental thing to her. Its obvious when I put up pray that it's not pray until I position it and release it onto the web because its a totally different web vibrations. I have to get darn close to her to accomplish setting pray. Why is she not web flexing so much and less and less as time goes on as I go into the cage?

 

[FrDoc]

I will look into that book. I was saying in reference to vibratory sense though. It seems that her web flexing is getting less intense and shorter duration over time now as I have to get in the cage to some degree and put up a cricket or super worm. So isn't it that she is becoming accustomed to this interaction? Perhaps, just that it is becoming a usual environmental thing to her. Its obvious when I put up pray that it's not pray until I position it and release it onto the web because its a totally different web vibrations. I have to get darn close to her to accomplish setting pray. Why is she not web flexing so much and less and less as time goes on as I go into the cage?

I would conjecture primarily the environmental factor. An example being, when you put a tarantula in a new enclosure it will generally take up a position in one area, often the hide, for an extended period of time. However, as it becomes more situated it begins to be more “relaxed”.

 

[Galapoheros]

I can't help but ask you this. You say you have an MD degree(?). I know several people that are MDs, they have no time for this hobby and practically no time for anything else. Did you specialize?, GP? It's just odd for an MD motivated person to have time for such a hobby.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

Im retired

 

[Galapoheros]

Oh that will do it! I know people that retired from that asap, they just didn't like it, gov intrusion, or just didn't like the idea of being sued. I also got back to doing what I was doing before I had to do what I didn't really want to do ...something like that.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

I would conjecture primarily the environmental factor. An example being, when you put a tarantula in a new enclosure it will generally take up a position in one area, often the hide, for an extended period of time. However, as it becomes more situated it begins to be more “relaxed”.

Hello again and thanks for your helpful information. I have a new question and wondering if you might have some input. My Orb is doing well and no problems, but I've a question on a minor change in her body. I noticed yesterday afternoon after she finished consuming a large cricket. I can't find any info on this subtle change anywhere. Her epigyne/scape area is lifted out from her body just a little bit. Is this perhaps from her being engorged from eating the cricket yesterday? Or can she be gravid again? Prior to my caging her, she had mated 2 times that we know of and produced 2 egg sacs. Otherwise, she looks perfectly well and not showing any problems with this. I just noticed it since I pretty much know her whole body structure now and I noticed this new change.

 

[ArachnaGerl]

So I have my own answer to the body changes, she was Gravid. So, Now I have this huge egg case in the cage and will have to get it out of there. She was either storing sperm from her last mating several weeks ago, or the sac is full of non-fertilized eggs. I will tell you that this has been thus far a very interesting creature to house and care for and I feel as foreign with this as I can possibly be with what I am doing with her, but so far, it's been right. So that makes 3 times for her making egg sacs and this is the first in captivity. I thought something was up when she didn't finish eating a cricket yesterday and dropped it unfinished to the ground. Well, I should be happy because so far this total spider newbie as I have successfully kept a healthy and apparently happy Orb.... A mother of 3 so far! Now I am going to worry if she will die or she will continue to live on. I am in uncharted territory as each day passes as I have no idea what is going to happen with her next. I plan to remove the sac from the cage, but wont do it alone because I am scared of her. I will wait for my sister to come and help me hopefully later today as I want it out of there asap. I will post a picture of this before I do it too.

 

[schmiggle]

A mother of 3 so far

More like 3,000

 

[ArachnaGerl]

EeeeK, huge egg sac in the cage!

 

[WildSpider]

EeeeK, huge egg sac in the cage! View attachment 285569

Oooh! If you were to sell some of the babies on the boards I would probably consider getting some, lol. Have been trying to find one in my area but can't find them anywhere. Only saw one once when I was little. They're pretty rare around here.