Will instinct tell them not to molt in a small space?

[6StringSamurai]

I have two p. irminia that have almost outgrown their current spaces. They are maybe two molts away from being moved.

Right now they have 35mm film canisters as hides, and they spend most of their time there and always molt inside.

They are big enough now that it is probably a little bit of a tight fit for them, but they clearly don't mind as they still stay inside most of the time.

What bothers me is, one time I saw a post on this board describing a bad molt where the spider in question worked it's way into a very small space and tried to molt there. It got stuck and was badly injured enough that the owner put it in the freezer.

I could not abide this happening to my beloved Sun Tigers.

So, at what point do you think it would be a good idea to get them a bigger hiding spot, even if the container is still well sized for them? Is it possible that they would try to molt in too small a space because they usually feel comfortable there?

Thanks!

 

[Cerbera]

Nope - IME, they can moult in the most ridiculously small spaces, and often choose to do just that. I really worry about mine sometimes, as I just can't see how its got room in its hide to do anything, let alone something like moulting. but she built it, and seems perfectly fine with it.

But one thing I have learned is that the spider itself knows best where it wants to do its thing. My only worry would be that it would rather stay hidden and deal with cramped conditions, perhaps at some risk to itself, or moult success, rather than do it somewhere where there is more space, but it is visble, and therefore considers itself more vulnerable.

 

[Code Monkey]

I had a small G. aureostriata juvenile being shipped to me moult successfully in transit and packed completely in peat - I don't worry about where they choose to do their thing.

 

[lucanidae]

I've lost many slings (esp. A. versicolor) to molting in shipping, I'll never again ship or recieve animals possibly in premolt. Instict to not molt, nope, it is a hormone driven cycle.

 

[Code Monkey]

I've lost many slings (esp. A. versicolor) to molting in shipping, I'll never again ship or recieve animals possibly in premolt. Instict to not molt, nope, it is a hormone driven cycle.

Which has what to do with my point? or the original question? The question is whether anyone should be worried about where your T chooses to moult within its enclosure. I mentioned that a chaco was able to successfully moult packed in peat while being mailed, i.e., if a T does fine in that scenario, whatever scenario the worried owner is twisting their wrists over is almost certaily unwarranted.

 

[Cerbera]

Which has what to do with my point?

I think he's making a perfectly valid point that just because spiders you have experienced can moult in confined spaces in transit, his didn't. What is wrong with contributing that ? This thread is about someone's worry over where a spider has chosen, or will choose to moult, and so far, I think all replies have been pertinent, informative or helpful to that end, specifically that particular post because the original poster mentioned 35mm film canisters, which are exactly what slings usually arrive in !

 

[Code Monkey]

I think he's making a perfectly valid point that just because spiders you have experienced can moult in confined spaces in transit, his didn't.

And where is that valid point in his reply? And what does it have to do with the original subject? I've also had a sling arrive midmoult that died, boohoohoo. That particular negative doesn't have a thing to do with whether you should be worried about where a stably housed T decides to do its moult. I've *never* lost a T to a bad moult other than the one from shipping. I've had them mysteriously die a few days later, presumably due to an injury that occurred during or shortly after a moult, but actually stuck in a moult because the space was too confining?, never happened, never heard of it happening where I believe it was caused by the confining space.

 

[Cerbera]

Well its not worth having a debate about it, is it ? So I shall butt out of this one, and leave room for all the more relevent (but equally helpful) replies that are hopefully on the way...

 

[cacoseraph]

two things, more or less to the original poster

1) they don't exactly have an instinct that tells them to molt... the actual molting process goes on for weeks or months before the t sheds. it actually builds all the visible exoskeleton and some internals (upper digestive system, book lung linings, maybe other stuff) well before the time it actually climbs out of its old skin

2) out hundreds of slings molting thousands of times, i can't recall ever seeing one molt badly cuz of confinement. this has happened to a few scorps i have kept... but not in 1000's of tara molts that i can recall. i don't think this is cuz they can sense anything, i think it is because the size of container we see fit to keep them in is always more than adequate to allow the spider to molt succesfully, all other factors not withstanding

but to answer your question... as long as a tara is provided with adequate food and water (definitely when young) they will shed no matter where they are when the time comes... it is beyond voluntary or instinctual control. possibly with larger/mature individuals you could influence time between molts by seasonal/environmental clues and all you can control with feeding

 

[lucanidae]

Uhhh......:?

Will instinct tell them not to molt in a small space?

That was the title of the post.

I've lost many slings (esp. A. versicolor) to molting in shipping, I'll never again ship or recieve animals possibly in premolt. Instict to not molt, nope, it is a hormone driven cycle.

I'm sorry.....did I say something wrong? I wasn't responding to CodeMonkey, I was responding to the question that was the title of the post.....

As for this:

but actually stuck in a moult because the space was too confining?, never happened, never heard of it happening where I believe it was caused by the confining space.

I had a number of tightly packed A. versicolor molt in shipping. This was not just one shipment but several. It appeard to me that because they were packed so tightly they were only able to pop the carapace off but did not have the room to get out of the molt. They arrived stuck in the molt, semi-hardend, and were unable to finish the process. I don't understand why this is so unbelieveable???:? If 'instinct' told them not to molt in a confined space then these versicolors most likely would not have attempted molting in a super tight shipping vial.

 

[6StringSamurai]

What I was thinking was more along the lines of this, would instinct tell them to go molt outside instead of in their hides if the hides were too small. I'm thinking not, because they don't realize that they are perfectly safe outside their hides, of course.

That said, I think they will be ok. I'll be moving them into larger containers pretty soon though anyway.

Thanks for all the helpful replies, there is some good information in this thread.