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She also had 3 eggs sacs, I took them to raise em too.....
Widow ID please. Not the average Latrodectus I find in my area.
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She also had 3 eggs sacs, I took them to raise em too.....
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L. hesperus, nice pattern
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thats a gorgeous spider, man i would like to have some of those....
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well, I do have PLENTY to share haha
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looks like hesperus cf mexicana
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You positive SHE produced that sac? I ask, because she looks a molt or two from maturity. Leg pattern...looks like shes still about "sweet sixteen". Documentation of her actually producing another sac would be essential for us widow dorks. 
If she is an adult producing young than the question should be... is she just another rare pattern retaining hesperus OR could you call her a 'morph'. Raising up ...er..lets say..20% or so of her young could give a clue.
Most highly patterned, unusually colored, 'mactans-like' dorsal lines, glassless, etc.. hesperus sacs that I have raised (even with high percentage survival) have produced nothing but normal(black or dark brown with nil or small amount of pattern retention) adults.
On the other hand, I have had 'any old norm hesps', now and then produce a few young that turned out to be unusual adults. Natures genetic crap shoot trying out a few things! Crazy thing about it is, the widow that IS actually genetically prone to produce unusual offspring MAY be just a plain old hesperus herself.
Pattern, dorsal lines, glasses are technically always there even with the blackest of adults. Its just that these markings more often fade to dark within this species compared to other widows. The genetic trigger must be a simple one because things like hue, pattern, size etc are the most prominent variants with most creatures. Could it be purely random? environmental? a specific food source during a certain period of growth? genetic inclination? or a combination of whatnot? The guesswork to understand/control such things is probably just a bit beyond grasp, even though its SO simple for 'nature' to play around with it.
What I wanted to do (...and started to right at the time I had NO more time to do so) ... was raise a bunch of L. mactans texanus which are actually just hesperus that maintain their 6th instar (or so) coloration/pattern. (thought to be a subspecies.. named back when all widows were thought to be "mactans".) Lets call em L.hesperus-texanus.
Will these actually produce a greater number of offspring that resemble mommy? Is there environmental, food, inbreeding, etc factors? If one could raise a number of generations, would they revert back to 'normal' hesperus? Anyway... it always seemed like there would/could be more to bite off and chew when it comes to experimentation with these compared to the seemingly random variants I come across in my neck of the woods.
A couple examples of 'texanus' that I had time to document...
compnerd7, I see yer within my neck of the woods and i have spotted u over on SCABIES. If your interested in raising a percentage, id be interested in helping. She produce another sac yet?
If she is an adult producing young than the question should be... is she just another rare pattern retaining hesperus OR could you call her a 'morph'. Raising up ...er..lets say..20% or so of her young could give a clue.
Most highly patterned, unusually colored, 'mactans-like' dorsal lines, glassless, etc.. hesperus sacs that I have raised (even with high percentage survival) have produced nothing but normal(black or dark brown with nil or small amount of pattern retention) adults.
On the other hand, I have had 'any old norm hesps', now and then produce a few young that turned out to be unusual adults. Natures genetic crap shoot trying out a few things! Crazy thing about it is, the widow that IS actually genetically prone to produce unusual offspring MAY be just a plain old hesperus herself.
Pattern, dorsal lines, glasses are technically always there even with the blackest of adults. Its just that these markings more often fade to dark within this species compared to other widows. The genetic trigger must be a simple one because things like hue, pattern, size etc are the most prominent variants with most creatures. Could it be purely random? environmental? a specific food source during a certain period of growth? genetic inclination? or a combination of whatnot? The guesswork to understand/control such things is probably just a bit beyond grasp, even though its SO simple for 'nature' to play around with it.
What I wanted to do (...and started to right at the time I had NO more time to do so) ... was raise a bunch of L. mactans texanus which are actually just hesperus that maintain their 6th instar (or so) coloration/pattern. (thought to be a subspecies.. named back when all widows were thought to be "mactans".) Lets call em L.hesperus-texanus.
Will these actually produce a greater number of offspring that resemble mommy? Is there environmental, food, inbreeding, etc factors? If one could raise a number of generations, would they revert back to 'normal' hesperus? Anyway... it always seemed like there would/could be more to bite off and chew when it comes to experimentation with these compared to the seemingly random variants I come across in my neck of the woods.
A couple examples of 'texanus' that I had time to document...
compnerd7, I see yer within my neck of the woods and i have spotted u over on SCABIES. If your interested in raising a percentage, id be interested in helping. She produce another sac yet?
Last edited:
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buthus, I read several studies quite some time ago that attributed mean humidity to color and pattern variation. The hypothesis was the extremely similar color and pattern of the So Cal hesperus was due to the lack of change in humidity. More recently there was a study done in Darwin where they caused the 'red back' latro to change it's color pattern with increased humidity over several generations.
Heard any such thing? Got any info that may bear this out?
Heard any such thing? Got any info that may bear this out?
Entomancer
Arachnobaron
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Wow.
That's an amazing looking spider.
The pattern on her back in the first pic looks like animal bones....
That's an amazing looking spider.
The pattern on her back in the first pic looks like animal bones....
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Ha! I gotta do more readn':biggrin: Love to read the Darwin/redback study.
I have always wondered about 'texanus' ... figured there HAS to be an environmental difference ...even if there so happens to be a genetic one in play also.
I do know this... er... at least it seems fairly clear. Hesperus I find that have molted to maturity during our longer cold-snaps (down to freezing nights) tend to be much larger ...often HUGE.
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I don't know if the information I read at the Darwin natural history museum was ever published. They had a number of very serious, highly qualified naturalists there and I was impressed by their professionalism. One researcher was doing a comparison study between the Hasselti found in different regions of Aus. which supported the humidity theory. The Hasselti are to Aus. what the Hesperus is to So. Cal.. IE, extremely common, highly cosmopolitan and demonstrates the same ability to detect the odor of urine and feces. That ability, their massive infestations of privies, has led to them being given the nickname 'outhouse spiders'.
Some of the Hasselti that were raised in a damp environment turned a dark red brown color though the hourglass and red 'tail stripe' remained the same.
I wonder why Hesperus grows so much larger during cold moltings? Any ideas or conjectures? I do recall seeing a number of Hesperus one season that were notably larger, the body nearly an inch long. Didn't pay any attention to environment issues though.