Venom strength vs. time to die

[Code]

Hey guys,
The one time I've seen a scorpion sting it's prey was with my H. spadix. He kept the stinger in a medium sized cricket for about 3 seconds. I expected the cricket to die almost immediately, but it didn't. It took maybe five minutes. Is that normal? If possible could you guys post what types of envenomations (what type of scorp) you've witnessed, what type of prey it was, and how long it took for the venom to cause death? I'm curious as to what the variations are with different strength venoms.

Also, one other thing. I have black sand in my Hadrurus' enclosure and every time I've seen him catch prey, it looks like he regurgitates some sand before he starts eating. Anyone else witnessed this?

 

[TresScorps]

Ive seen my Parabuthus transvaalicus kill a regular sized mouse in about 2 Mins , took about 30 seconds and the mouse was fully paralyzed , 2 good stings , and another min and a half and the mouse was dead . did not attempt to eat the mouse after death ...

 

[Fergrim]

My trans normally kills the cricket within 1 second after the first sting.

 

[TresScorps]

Fergrim , Does your trans sting fast without holding the stinger in its prey ? Mine does not sting deep at all , just fast pricks ..

 

[Code]

Well, my spadix got another cricket tonight and this time it only took about 10 seconds for it to die. I noticed a cricket in his enclosure that I thought had been eaten. He was approaching the area where the cricket was, and I wanted to capture the attack on tape. I ran to get a tape for the camcorder and I could have only been gone about 30 seconds. I got back to find the cricket in his grasp! It was still moving but died quickly. Man I'm bummed that I missed it.

 

[biznacho]

I recently got some B. jacksoni and they seem to kill their pray within a second of stinging. Ccrickets struggle, the scorp stings, the cricket dies, munchies begin! I've seen them rated as high as a 3 out of 5, venom wise.

Before it died my H. arizonensis took a minuite or two after stinging to finally off a large cricket.

biznacho

 

[darrelldlc]

My C gracilis babies are very aggressive towards small crickets. They sting immediately after catching one, and it takes little more than one second to completely stop moving. I have observed my LQ aggressively attack medium crickets but seems like it takes a couple seconds for the cricket to completely stop moving.
Darrell.

 

[David_F]

My C. vittatus(adult female) took down an adult cricket today in under 30 seconds. She stung then backed off. The cricket twitched for about 20 seconds or so and she finally grabbed it. Not sure it was completely dead but it appeared to be. At the 30 second mark it had to be. She had eaten its head.

 

[alex]

Scorpions can inject as much venom as they want to.

 

[David_F]

Scorpions can inject as much venom as they want to.

And???

I think one of the purposes of this thread is to compare individual animals to one another. Could give us a good idea of the average potency of various species venom.

 

[alex]

A bigger prey will be injected with more venom.

 

[smalltime]

And???

I think one of the purposes of this thread is to compare individual animals to one another. Could give us a good idea of the average potency of various species venom.

The thing is...venom for insects is a different protein from venom that kills mice (hurts/kills humans) so giving them 'skulls' according to the time they take to kill a cricket is meaningless in the sense of medical importance...

I must say it is an interesting subject though. My H. judaicus takes at least 2-3min. to kill a crick after 1-2 stings. The H. trilineatus and minax are quicker...

 

[PIter]

Scorpions might use a simple low protein venom to kill small prey and a diffirent high protein venom to kill large threats. The crickets needless to say falls into the first catagorie and humans the second. So this really doesn't give any good idea to how dangerous they are to humans.

 

[Code]

I'm interested in the effects on small prey. i.e. Food items.

The fact that scorps inject different amounts of venom is interesting. I suppose if a cricket didn't struggle much, less venom would be used...

 

[snakezen]

Scorpion Venom

Scorpion venom is a peptide cocktail, not a protein, which varies for different species. A peptide is an amide combining the amino group of one amino acid with the carboxyl group of another; usually obtained by partial hydrolysis of a protein. Scorpions are known to be venom conservers, i.e. they precisely control how much venom they inject based upon the target and their currently available stored supply. So it is difficult to draw conclusions from isoloated prey sting observations.

 

[errit]

I thought that it did contain protein.

 

[snakezen]

Scorpion Venom Peptides

Here is some information regards the scorpion toxin peptides chlorotoxin and charbydotoxin in Leiurus quinquestriatus, aka the death stalker scorpion.

http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group13/scorpions.html

 

[oblivion56]

my a.a knocked me on my butt in less then an hour!

 

[errit]

my a.a knocked me on my butt in less then an hour!

why do you sit ont hem?

 

[fusion121]

If you do a search for prevenom you'll find a discussion of this topic and the link the paper I posted, prevenom supposedly used to deal with low threat encounters (and so presumably small prey items, though people thought it was mostly speculation on the part of the authors) is low in venom macromolecules and high in the various metal cations associated with nervous system interaction. As a note Its often believed that scorpions can control the quantity of venom the can inject but as far as I'm aware there is nothing in the literature which can verify this claim. It would definitely be an interesting area for research.