Validity of Loxosceles reclusa (Brown recluse) in Florida

[xhexdx]

I was told a few weeks back by an ER surgeon that L. reclusa aren't in central/southern Florida. He said there has never been a documented bite other than in northern Florida.

I was wondering if anyone has either personally seen L. reclusa in Florida (meaning proper identification has been made) or knows how to search hospital/doctor records to find out if this is true or not.

I keep hearing of all these people who have been bit by them, but nobody has the spider to prove it. I'd like some solid proof.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

--Joe

 

[John Apple]

Joe...In 11 years I have never seen one there...spent many a day flipping trash and in the crawl spaces in some houses...never seen one.
Saw many yellow sac spiders. Had a bite in the leg I went to the doctor for while in Naples and they said it was a recluse bite...doubtful man. I could have been bitten by anything...there is more than one thing that can give a necrotic bite....

 

[xhexdx]

I agree with ya.

I was just reading this thread:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=130388

It addresses the concept of getting accurate hospital records, so we might need to forget that part of my original post. I'm still curious if anyone in Florida has found an actual recluse though.

Thanks for the quick response, John.

 

[crpy]

I hear this all the time like you do. I have been looking as well and nothing in ten years. People have brought me spiders swearing they are recluse, even bringing INTERNET PICS of recluse. Most are H. venatoria ADULTS lol,and juvis. others are Kukulcania and what ever. Did you read GB Edward's paper on the subject, he debunks several physicians records. I have personally witnessed wrong ID by a physician blaming recluse.

 

[lucanidae]

http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif

Above is a pretty accurate map of Loxosceles spp. range in the U.S. Anywhere else they are being reported is either on the edges, a misID, or perhaps arrived in a box or some other human aided way.

 

[xhexdx]

I'm not sure how accurate that map is any more...considering hardlucktattoo is finding them in North Carolina...

 

[ctsoth]

A tiny bit off topic, but we have multiple species of "Black Widows" in Minnesota. For some reason they are only found in or around things that have been shipped from out of state though.

 

[lucanidae]

You can see North Carolina is just barley included on that map for L. reclusa, which for me makes it 'on the edge'.

Of course, so is Florida...the map is simply an approximation, but its the best visual one easily available on the internet.

And...there are the other two less likely options I presented for finding them elsewhere, though I wouldn't be particularly surprised to find them in the wild in NC.

 

[8+)]

It's refreshing to hear of medical professionals who have a good degree of skepticism on this issue.

 

[wsimms]

I am a physician and at a meeting this summer we discussed the fact that there have been 200+ reported "L. reclusa envenomations", but only a single documented L. reclusa specimen in the entire state (not sure where). Either there have been many misdiagnosed cases or one very busy (and ornery) spider.

 

[crpy]

I'm not sure how accurate that map is any more...considering hardlucktattoo is finding them in North Carolina...

Did he find one, did he show a pic, because I remember the thread but I dont know the out come of it.:?

 

[cjm1991]

I lived in Florida for a few years and never saw or heard of one. Now I live in Missouri and they are everywhere..

 

[syndicate]

I know of 2 people in my area that were both recently diagnosed with recluse spider bites here in Connecticut.I'm guessing in reality there came from sac spiders(Miturgidae).One of the people bit was my boss and he had a nasty wound left from the bite.It since has healed after seeing a doctor.The other bite happened to someone a friend of mine knows and supposedly he may have to get his leg amputated since he waited to long to see a doctor.
Heres a link to check
http://www.acvcsd.org/insect_identification/yellowsacspider.PDF
-Chris

 

[buthus]

Did he find one, did he show a pic, because I remember the thread but I dont know the out come of it.

I dont think that was ever 'resolved'. :? Though someone told me that spider(s) were sent for confirmation (??)...but hey, what ya gonna do? ..ask the spider where shes been? Those pics look swiped off the web. Thats y I wanted to see the raw image.

I would say I'd be very surprised (if we had the star trek bio-scan) to find that there wasnt L.reclusa in Florida ...and N.Carolina for that matter.

 

[pitbulllady]

You can see North Carolina is just barley included on that map for L. reclusa, which for me makes it 'on the edge'.

Of course, so is Florida...the map is simply an approximation, but its the best visual one easily available on the internet.

And...there are the other two less likely options I presented for finding them elsewhere, though I wouldn't be particularly surprised to find them in the wild in NC.

Wilson, NC, where Hardlucktattoo lives, is nowhere near that tiny little portion of the Great Smokey Mountains on the NC/TN border. I live in SC, and have never seen one here. Dr. Robert Wolff, an arachnologist with UGA and Clemson University, has searched for L. reclusa in both Carolinas, and has yet to find one or be sent a specimen that was collected in the Carolinas. Aside from the possibility of a random specimen "hitch-hiking" to the state in the luggage of someone arriving from the midwest or TX, it just does not seem likely, given that there are actually quite a few folks out looking for these, finding nothing. Every single "Brown Recluse" I've been shown has inevitably been something different that IS common in this area, usually either Pholcus phalangiodes, Kukukcania hibernalis or a Lycosid of some sort.
I DID get a nice and well-needed laugh at CRPY's comment that people where he lives, in FL, have actually thought that an adult Heteropoda venatora was a "Brown Recluse", though! That's kinda like mistaking an Italian Greyhound for an Irish Wolfhound, but then, I've seen folks here mistake BIG Hogna carolinensis for one!

pitbulllady

 

[xhexdx]

Did he find one, did he show a pic, because I remember the thread but I dont know the out come of it.:?

Check the link I posted earlier in this thread.

 

[crpy]

Check the link I posted earlier in this thread.

uumm, sorry I really hate to say this, but since this would be for a confirmation record...I would have to see a pic of hardlucktattoo holding the deli cup with the spider in it.

 

[xhexdx]

Well yeah I agree with that.


But I'm not really concerned with North Carolina. I'm concerned with Florida. I don't think there will ever be any real answers for me though...until someone finds a recluse around these parts.

 

[nitrotek]

used to find them on Camp Lejeune they would come in are barracks during heavy rains and had one guy in my platoon bit in the leg

 

[pitbulllady]

used to find them on Camp Lejeune they would come in are barracks during heavy rains and had one guy in my platoon bit in the leg

Who confirmed that these were L. reclusa? Were the spiders actually identified by an arachnologist, or just someone who said, "I think that's a Brown Recluse"? Did anyone SEE the spider bite the guy on the leg, exactly where a lesion appeared, and positively identify THAT spider as a L. reclusa, or did a sore appear on the guy's leg and someone said, "I've seen 'Brown Recluses' n the barracks; Brown Recluses can cause sores on humans when they bite, therefore this is a Brown Recluse bite"?

pitbulllady