Unfortunetly, there are not any tarantula vets in my town..

[mark e sic]

Trust me, it is NOT too heavy. A 7.5" LP is heavier than any 5 or 6" G. rosea. Also, you're right, glass tanks are expensive. That's why I, and many hobbyyists, don't use them. There are better alternatives that can provide better safety for your Ts and won't leave you with an empty wallet.



There's no reason for it to become common practice to take Ts to the vet. That's just wasting money. I don't pay anyone to mow my grass because I can do it myself. Same with a "T vet", I can do the same thing and everything I would ever need to do can be found on here. There is no special equipment, medicine, or procedures that they have, that we don't. For Ts, at least.

explain DKS then... just because you guys and me wouldnt take our Ts to the vet doesnt mean everybody would do the same.. not much research has been done on illnesses of arachnids and thats obviously what this Doc is trying to do. Yes you can spread some crazy glue on your T to help with a wound but wat about sicknesses inside your T. what would you do then? would you operate on your own T? and obviously not everyone would able to afford this kind of service but thats why you wouldnt take your common G.rosea to get checked out. you would only take important or rare species to get treatments like this.

 

[abryan1992]

I curently have only 2 T's. I will put my Avicularia in one, and My G. Rosea in the other, but I don't see the point in going to pay more money for another tank when the glass ones are just fine. I have tons of substrate, so filling it wont be a problem. Besides, I have a feeling my G. Rosea is on his way out anyway, so ill give it a little more time before i go buy a new tank for him. You wouldnt buy an old dog a new doghouse right? I appreciate everyones advice. From now on there wont be any more glass tanks and I wont be buying from pet stores anymore.
Where does everyone buy from?? I dont know a lot about T pricing, what is good and what is not, so some sites that are decently priced please list for future reference.

 

[mark e sic]

sorry for the hijack...
but I would try the classifieds. With time you can get really good deals there.

 

[jayefbe]

explain DKS then... just because you guys and me wouldnt take our Ts to the vet doesnt mean everybody would do the same.. not much research has been done on illnesses of arachnids and thats obviously what this Doc is trying to do. Yes you can spread some crazy glue on your T to help with a wound but wat about sicknesses inside your T. what would you do then? would you operate on your own T? and obviously not everyone would able to afford this kind of service but thats why you wouldnt take your common G.rosea to get checked out. you would only take important or rare species to get treatments like this.

Are you saying this PhD in "something" "veterinarian" knows what DKS is? (by the way, they offer PhD's in almost every subject under the sun, just having one does not make you a medical or invertebrate expert) Sounds like a jerk if he's not sharing it with the community. Also, what services would he be able to render that a knowledgeable hobbyist couldn't? Where is he doing this research? How is he even funding it? Where is he getting the test subjects?

The fact is, Hobbyists are at the forefront of "medical" science when it comes to tarantulas. Nobody else is working on them, quite frankly because there is no monetary incentive to. That's simply the way it is. Vets aren't taught about tarantulas because there is so very little to teach, and they will probably never see a tarantula in their private practice. Almost everything we know about treating tarantula ailments was generated by hobbyists who made it up as they went along. Finally, a legitimate research scientist or medical professional isn't likely to be lecturing at a pet store. It would be at a research institution or symposium or even the American Tarantula Society. I'm guessing the person is a hobbyist in his own right and is just interested in learning more about tarantula ailments as part of his own hobby. That would certainly be a helpful endeavor for the hobby at large, but it's certainly not an expert tarantula veterinarian.

 

[Tarac]

explain DKS then... just because you guys and me wouldnt take our Ts to the vet doesnt mean everybody would do the same.. not much research has been done on illnesses of arachnids and thats obviously what this Doc is trying to do. Yes you can spread some crazy glue on your T to help with a wound but wat about sicknesses inside your T. what would you do then? would you operate on your own T? and obviously not everyone would able to afford this kind of service but thats why you wouldnt take your common G.rosea to get checked out. you would only take important or rare species to get treatments like this.

No- you are missing the point completely. Even if you had a $20K tarantula, there is NO ONE to take it to. No one else would know any better than the lovely folks here on AB or the ATS or BTS, etc. what is going on with your T because no one is investigating this in any other way besides "casually." No one knows what DKS is because nobody is trying to figure it out besides us. It's not about lack of funding, lack of effort or desire. There is no such thing as a T vet because you cannot fix something that you aren't even sure is broken.

It's like taking an alien spaceship to an automechanic to see if he can make it fly again.

jay is completely right, you can get a PhD in J.R.R. Tolkien or in Parabiology (you know, studying Sasquatch). Just because he says he has a PhD doesn't make it relevant or even quality for that matter, but that's neither here nor there. All of what you are touting as this great benefit this guy is trying to do for our community at large, pro bono, has already been done ourselves. So he has no expert knowledge to offer beyond what we already know. The reason being that there is no "expert" as in the traditional sense of educational training available. Period. After Rick West and a handful of others scattered around the globe no another soul even thinks about tarantulas in the professional sense. It's very unfortunate, it comes up often here- "if only I had lots of money to study them more" type of thing.

But, just like jay said, no funding= no study. Just the way the world works in its current permutation. People rarely are afforded the chance to investigate something out of pure intellectual desire unless it seems like the hosting institutions will be able to turn a profit from it in some way, whether it be financial, prestige, whatever. Figuring out why people's pet tarantulas randomly start to lose motor control is not on the top of the list sadly. Even phyllogeny of tarantulas is lacking, hence all the sp."red" or "blue" or "yellow" or "Peru." We all wish what you seem to believe is true was true, but it's only a dream to date.

---------- Post added 03-21-2012 at 03:27 PM ----------

I curently have only 2 T's. I will put my Avicularia in one, and My G. Rosea in the other, but I don't see the point in going to pay more money for another tank when the glass ones are just fine. I have tons of substrate, so filling it wont be a problem. Besides, I have a feeling my G. Rosea is on his way out anyway, so ill give it a little more time before i go buy a new tank for him. You wouldnt buy an old dog a new doghouse right? I appreciate everyones advice. From now on there wont be any more glass tanks and I wont be buying from pet stores anymore.
Where does everyone buy from?? I dont know a lot about T pricing, what is good and what is not, so some sites that are decently priced please list for future reference.

I wouldn't let my dog live in a doghouse, but sure why not? If the old dog is too fat for the house his former puppy self would fit into, then time to get a new house.

I don't see the problem with glass specifically other than obviously they break a little more easily than plastic, but the main issue I think people were getting at is the divided element. It was pointed out because it's not the first time someone has tried and probably won't be the last. People try, ultimately one T gets into the other half of the tank and you end up with one or no Ts. Plus the cultural differences between those two species, etc. etc. Just not wise, I would rethink it as you said you were going to do.

I too recommend the classifieds here. Lots of great people.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

I curently have only 2 T's. I will put my Avicularia in one, and My G. Rosea in the other, but I don't see the point in going to pay more money for another tank when the glass ones are just fine. I have tons of substrate, so filling it wont be a problem. Besides, I have a feeling my G. Rosea is on his way out anyway, so ill give it a little more time before i go buy a new tank for him. You wouldnt buy an old dog a new doghouse right? I appreciate everyones advice. From now on there wont be any more glass tanks and I wont be buying from pet stores anymore.
Where does everyone buy from?? I dont know a lot about T pricing, what is good and what is not, so some sites that are decently priced please list for future reference.

A sterilite shoebox at Walmart is seriously like 4 bucks. They're not much. And if the safety of spiders was at stake, I don't care how old or whatever else, I'd buy a new tank. Either way, you'd have a good one for your next T.

 

[mark e sic]

No you guys are missing my point. everything you guys mentioned is exactly what im trying to say except that I dont have his info and as soon as I do I will personally ask him to post up on this thread.. money wise.. he said the same thing! not much money going into it to get too far.. thats why he is busting his a$$

think for a second.. for example lets go back to when people started keeping lets say birds.. who do you think was the leading front in medicine birds then? offcourse the bird hobbyist or anybody who kept them.. until one day a vet/doctor/scientist started actually researching on his own obviously(nobody cared enough about the animal he is focused on). you think it wasnt hard for them to get fundings?! im just saying there is somone working on this wether or not he makes it .... idk.. and as far as him spreading his word to community? I dont know Y...

 

[abryan1992]

I wouldn't let my dog live in a doghouse, but sure why not? If the old dog is too fat for the house his former puppy self would fit into, then time to get a new house.

I don't see the problem with glass specifically other than obviously they break a little more easily than plastic, but the main issue I think people were getting at is the divided element. It was pointed out because it's not the first time someone has tried and probably won't be the last. People try, ultimately one T gets into the other half of the tank and you end up with one or no Ts. Plus the cultural differences between those two species, etc. etc. Just not wise, I would rethink it as you said you were going to do.

I too recommend the classifieds here. Lots of great people.

Ill put one in one tank and one in the other. Im not going to buy a new cage when I dont need to. G. Rosea(Aragog) can stay in the 10 gallon with more substrate and the A. Avicularia(currently no name) can be in the 5 gallon since he/she is smaller. There problem solved.

 

[Tarac]

No you guys are missing my point. everything you guys mentioned is exactly what im trying to say except that I dont have his info and as soon as I do I will personally ask him to post up on this thread.. money wise.. he said the same thing! not much money going into it to get too far.. thats why he is busting his a$$

think for a second.. for example lets go back to when people started keeping lets say birds.. who do you think was the leading front in medicine birds then? offcourse the bird hobbyist or anybody who kept them.. until one day a vet/doctor/scientist started actually researching on his own obviously(nobody cared enough about the animal he is focused on). you think it wasnt hard for them to get fundings?! im just saying there is somone working on this wether or not he makes it .... idk.. and as far as him spreading his word to community? I dont know Y...

But he cannot be called a "T vet" any more than anyone else here can be, that's why it's not correct to say. He has no specialized knowledge that can't be gleaned from the internet.

If I think for a sec (and you should too)- birds are highly profitable, people have been making their livelihood from birds for hundreds of years. If you think "parakeet" sure, there is no reason for anyone to investigate veterinary care for parakeets because, just like tarantulas, they are frivolous. But if you think bird= CHICKEN, well there you have a very very good reason to poor tons and tons of money and energy into figuring out everything that you can about bird physiology. So the reason why people know about birds is not because of hobbyists at all, it's because of meat and egg eating people. All of the animals we know most about are "useful" or something we want to erradicate. We know lots about cockroach physiology, for example. But tarantulas are only either pets or animals that are mostly found in other countries and are rarely encountered. So they get little attention.

Once you understand a chicken, most everything else can be inferred about parakeets. Diseases afflicting only exotic pet birds are far less well understood than those affecting chickens for the exact same reason that nobody understands tarantulas. They are "pets" and even though they are far more profitable than a T at $7K for a single Hyacinth Macaw, only a very moderate amount of research has been done on Psittacine-specific veterinary issues. On top of that, a talking parrot can ask you for funding personally and be much more charming than say a Pokie with venom-dripping fangs on display, and there's the whole animal-intelligence factor that makes them more publicly interesting and topics of study for more than just the field of veterinary medicine. Same goes for horses, dogs, etc. etc. T's are just pets, at best, to the general public. To say "he's working on it" and is one of the rare few is completely untrue- he's doing as much work as any of the rest of us are capable of which does not constitute a tarantula veterinary specialist at all. So if that's the qualifier then we are all veterinary T specialists to some degree. We all spend too much money of our budget trying to make the best life for our Ts and to understand what goes on with them when they are sick, breeding, molting, etc. But do we have any way to assay anything other than observationally? Not really. Neither does he.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Just wanted to let you guys know, I'm now an official Tarantula veterinarian. That's right... I'm about to receive my certificate as well. Just as soon as I make it and print it out.

You shall all now refer to me as Sheriff Substrate Chris Skeleton T Vet VMD.

 

[Tarac]

Just wanted to let you guys know, I'm now an official Tarantula veterinarian. That's right... I'm about to receive my certificate as well. Just as soon as I make it and print it out.

You shall all now refer to me as Sheriff Substrate Chris Skeleton T Vet VMD.

Sweet! So when do we get flea and tick control and rabies vaccinations for our T's? I have this T. stirmi that is constantly itching itself, I'm sure the poor little guy is just covered in fleas and I'm pretty sure one of my Pokies is rabid...

 

[mark e sic]

Just wanted to let you guys know, I'm now an official Tarantula veterinarian. That's right... I'm about to receive my certificate as well. Just as soon as I make it and print it out.

You shall all now refer to me as Sheriff Substrate Chris Skeleton T Vet VMD.

just want you to know that your not funny..
anyways.. obviously chickens are not a good comparison to what i am talking about.. I will restrain from commenting on this thread... if you guys want to prove your point about hobbyist being the lead in any kind of medicinal treatment and or care of tarantulas. then reopen a thread for discussion besides that wasnt even what I was trying state originally. yet another example of people considering themselves elitist in a forum.

 

[goodoldneon]

I’m as attached to my tarantulas as the next person, but, I’m also not made of money. More likely than not, the cost involved in operating on or treating one would exceed the cost of acquiring a new one – this is, of course, assuming one could locate a vet who treats inverts.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

just want you to know that your not funny..

Chill out. It's just a joke.

 

[Crel]

@abryan1992 sorry to hear about your T, but he does sound like he is on his way out. I lost my G. Rosea recently to a post-ultimate molt. It really sucked. But since then, I have learned a massive amount about tarantulas, and have really enjoyed all the time I have spent researching his replacement.

 

[Tarac]

just want you to know that your not funny..
anyways.. obviously chickens are not a good comparison to what i am talking about.. I will restrain from commenting on this thread... if you guys want to prove your point about hobbyist being the lead in any kind of medicinal treatment and or care of tarantulas. then reopen a thread for discussion besides that wasnt even what I was trying state originally. yet another example of people considering themselves elitist in a forum.

No body is being elitist, this is a syntax issue. The thread is about T vets, which do not exist in the sense that dog, cat, even avian vets do. No body is saying that we are true experts, that's why Chris Substrate VMD jests I believe. If you are going to call someone a T vet expert then they must have qualifications beyond the hobbyist, otherwise they are a hobbyist too. That is what is being clarified-whether or not it is appropriate to call someone a T vet, that's all.

You used a bird example- your logic was that hobbyist who keep birds as pets were the first people to initiate medical investigation of birds. Chickens is the best comparison to what you are talking about because it demonstrates why that logic is flawed. Medical investigation of birds did not start because someone who kept a finch wanted to know why it was sick. It started because people wanted to know how to care for chickens, ducks, etc. so that their source of nutrition was protected and safer for consumption, which is not a hobby. That is survival. So to say that the medical investigation of an animal starts because of interested hobbyists usually is not correct. Therefor using that line of logic as the foundation for your argument that this man is a T vet is pointless because the background assumption is wrong. Understand?

It's hard to appreciate the tone of posts in forums, I assure you that I am not picking on you- this is all expletive. We are just clarifying what can be considered true and what might be an over-estimation or too much confidence in the word of some guy claiming to be a T vet- who may genuinely be spending a lot his time wondering about DKS and cysts- but has no capacity to take it further by virtue of the nature of the hobby.

Chris' point in the joke (as I interpret it, feel free to correct ofc if I'm completely over-thinking it lol) is that if this man can call himself a T vet based only the fact that he knows what many of us know and what is already published and able to be practiced by the casual hobbyist, then we may as well all print certificates and tell people we are T vets because we have the exact same knowledge base and skill set available to us all.

You are completely misunderstanding that we are claiming to be more knowledgeable- it's not that which we took issue with. It's the part where the guy claims to be a T vet. We don't claim to be T vets, at least not seriously lol. That guy is clearly over-stating his expertise in this regard, we are just saying at best he's like us because not much better is available to the world at this point in time. Does that make more sense?

 

[mark e sic]

I was goin to ignore all of this but seeing how everybody is trying to guess,. I never said he was a T vet, I said he is a doctor that specializes on venomous animals/insects.. then i went on and said he recently started doing research on Ts. he did a seminar at my LPS because he wanted to know if we could help him out by leting him take a look at any of our Ts that maybe acting abnormal and or sick because he would like to take samples if not the whole specimen to try and diagnose what may be wrong with them via medical procedures. he went on talking about artificial insemenation and a few other subjects. when did i claim he was a T vet? I said he mentioned he would like the idea of people being able to take Ts to a vet and vets being able to at the very least know how to rehydrate a T instead not knowing whAt to do. also when i said birds i should have mentioned i ment exotic birds not commercialized ones. all the guy wants is to better understand the illnesses of insects/arachnids because nobody else has done much research on "bug" diseases.

 

[Tarac]

First you state this:

There actually is T. vets out there just not enough to go around..

---------- Post added 03-23-2012 at 12:15 PM ----------

Then this follows in the next post you made:

but I have met a vet that specializes in exotic pets. More recently he started running tests and research on venomous critters such as tarantulas.

---------- Post added 03-23-2012 at 12:35 PM ----------

he wanted to know if we could help him out by leting him take a look at any of our Ts that maybe acting abnormal and or sick because he would like to take samples if not the whole specimen to try and diagnose what may be wrong with them via medical procedures. he went on talking about artificial insemenation and a few other subjects. when did i claim he was a T vet? I said he mentioned he would like the idea of people being able to take Ts to a vet and vets being able to at the very least know how to rehydrate a T instead not knowing whAt to do. also when i said birds i should have mentioned i ment exotic birds not commercialized ones. all the guy wants is to better understand the illnesses of insects/arachnids because nobody else has done much research on "bug" diseases.

So when you say that a man, who is a Vet (and a PhD) is running "tests" to discover "medical things" about Ts and that he specializes in "venomous critters" which could be rattlesnakes, lionfish, tarantulas or the Hispaniola Selenodon what exactly were you trying to imply if not what we read? Like I said, it's a syntax issue.

I have degrees, I do "medical things" often. If I rehydrate my T with a syringe, does that make me a T vet? No. I would be wrong to claim otherwise. Both a plumber and an electrician can use a wrench but they are not interchangeable. It's good to offer help and insight, but you also have to keep in mind your own limitations or you could end up with a bigger mess than you started with. What I know about Ts is from experience and reading in places like this one. What the guy you know has available to him will be the same because there is no other secret stash of information to speak of, just a few new publications here and there each year.

About the birds- regardless of what you meant (and I understood from the first post that you meant "pet" birds like parrots, canaries and such) it has no influence on the answer. People didn't start looking at birds because of hobbyists but hobbyists can take their exotic pet birds to vets because people have already looked at other birds. Before anyone ever took the first parrot to the vet, there was already a big knowledge base available from our experiences with "useful" birds. So unlike tarantulas, you don't have to completely re-invent the wheel to figure out what is going on. There are some special differences which were not discovered until much later of course, but in general a parrot and a chicken are physiologically the same. There isn't anything comparable to Ts that we know that much about, that's where the problem lies. It doesn't matter what kind of bird you were talking about because Avians were already largely understood by the time hobbyists were involved. The same cannot be said for Ts- like you said, not much research is being done on "bug" diseases.

It is sad for us because if something goes wrong we are fairly helpless and have not many avenues to pursue. There is little medical intervention we even know is possible without killing the T too. I'm glad to hear that lots of people are thinking about T medicine, but we hear that a lot and nothing comes of it because of the aforementioned limiting factors. I would be delighted if I was completely wrong in assuming that they guy you met is just another guy with genuine interest but lacking the ability to do anything about it due to funding or whatever. Best of intentions in a world that just doesn't seem to care that much about "not useful" animals.