trantula wholesale/breeding profits etc

[AzJohn]

I don't think I could do this retail. How many boxes a week would you have to ship to make a living? If it's a job is it still fun? I do breed a few each year, Mainly I'm looking to sale or trade them whole sale.

 

[Moultmaster]

One truth I've come to realize is that the cooler the job sounds the less likely you are to make money doing it.

The problem is the hobbyist.

For example, breeding tarantulas for a living sounds cool. So you would expect people to do it for fun - and they do. Someone who is doing it for fun isn't really going to care about the profit. So if they breed a bunch of b. smithi they might sell them for $8/each whereas you need to sell for $20/each to make a satisfactory profit. They can afford to sell for cheap prices because they have other sources of income.

Same problem occurs with retired people. How many people plan to retire & do absolutely nothing? Yeah, exactly. A lot will "start a new job" but have no real need for profits, so they will sell at low prices that are not practical for someone who needs to support themselves.

You can try to make up the difference in either high volumes or by creating more efficient processes so that your time commitment per spider is much lower than the rest. (For example look at puppy mills). Otherwise, keep it as a hobby.

---------

Oh yeah, another thing you can do is get into a cool job that is blocked to hobbyists. Something where it's simply not practical for a hobbyist, like being a movie star. That of course has it's own barriers to entry and those barriers block the hobbyist but they also block almost everyone else as well.

Is it just me or do you sound really hostile towards hobbyists?

 

[Endagr8]

Is it just me or do you sound really hostile towards hobbyists?

I partially agree with him. Some of the most popular dealers maintain relatively high prices for a larger profit.

 

[Merfolk]

Ts are somehow a marginal thing, with a tiny percentage of the population interrested in it. Even our top breeders still have jobs, and even people I know who breed animals far more popular like pedigree cats don't pay their bills from it, or for a short time if they are lucky. Unless you got a very sough after item with a constant fixed price, the only way to achieve whealth is to move a big volume of what you sell!

 

[herpguy]

Oh man, my mental math is really off today!
I just realized my mistake while taking care of my animals, and I rushed on the computer to correct my mistake!
-Dave

 

[vvx]

Is it just me or do you sound really hostile towards hobbyists?

Well I'm a hobbyist myself, I hope that i'm not hostile to myself. (hides cuts)

Also the hobbyist would be your main market if you were to sell tarantulas, and hostility towards your customer base has not worked out too well for the RIAA.

 

[Bill S]

Keep in mind that you will always be in competition with hobbyists who can afford to undersell you. And any species you have a lot of success with will quickly saturate the market - meaning that about the time your investment in breeders pays for itself, the price will drop for that species and you'll have to invest in breeders of other species.

There are people who make a living dealing in inverts, so it can be done - but as someone else pointed out, you probably will never get rich. What it really comes down to is how much you enjoy the work and how rich you need to be to be happy. You'd probably be smarter to phase into the career - start it as a sideline and expand as your success allows. If it grows enough to be able to support you - then you've made it. If not - you've still got an interesting sideline.

 

[herpguy]

Also remember that you do need to sell your tarantulas.
A sling in your hand is not automatically money in your hand.
50 P. metallica females would be amazing, but how would you be able to sell 5000 slings at $150?
Believe me, it is not as easy as it looks.
-Dave

 

[somethingbig]

There are people who make a living dealing in inverts, so it can be done - but as someone else pointed out, you probably will never get rich. What it really comes down to is how much you enjoy the work and how rich you need to be to be happy. You'd probably be smarter to phase into the career - start it as a sideline and expand as your success allows. If it grows enough to be able to support you - then you've made it. If not - you've still got an interesting sideline.

what i was thinking but too lazy to type! ;P

 

[somethingbig]

Also remember that you do need to sell your tarantulas.
A sling in your hand is not automatically money in your hand.
50 P. metallica females would be amazing, but how would you be able to sell 5000 slings at $150?
Believe me, it is not as easy as it looks.
-Dave

i bet you it is with metallica...

 

[David Burns]

There is such a thing as market saturation.

then there is care.
Hmmm... care for 5000 slings.
Open, feed and water 500 slings a day.
50 slings per hour( averaging in breaks and distractions)
That's 10 hours a day.

I am thinking the price would drop fast.

 

[Sathane]

One truth I've come to realize is that the cooler the job sounds the less likely you are to make money doing it.

The problem is the hobbyist.

Huh? Without the hobbyist, the dealers would have no one to sell to.

For example, breeding tarantulas for a living sounds cool. So you would expect people to do it for fun - and they do. Someone who is doing it for fun isn't really going to care about the profit. So if they breed a bunch of b. smithi they might sell them for $8/each whereas you need to sell for $20/each to make a satisfactory profit. They can afford to sell for cheap prices because they have other sources of income.

Same problem occurs with retired people. How many people plan to retire & do absolutely nothing? Yeah, exactly. A lot will "start a new job" but have no real need for profits, so they will sell at low prices that are not practical for someone who needs to support themselves.

True. Except the well known dealers have built a reputation for excellent customer service and high quality specimens as well as being very experienced in the breeding and care which means they will have a better yield of live slings. The average hobbyist isn't intimately familiar with the processes involved in caring for a sac and some of the higher priced specimens are much harder to breed, therefore, their ratio of live slings from a sac would be significantly lower.

You can try to make up the difference in either high volumes or by creating more efficient processes so that your time commitment per spider is much lower than the rest. (For example look at puppy mills). Otherwise, keep it as a hobby.

I believe this is what the dealers do now. They offer a far greater selection of specimens than most hobbyist could even hope to own. Also, as mentioned above, their sacs will produce a greater yield as they are skilled in the proper care of those sacs.

Oh yeah, another thing you can do is get into a cool job that is blocked to hobbyists. Something where it's simply not practical for a hobbyist, like being a movie star. That of course has it's own barriers to entry and those barriers block the hobbyist but they also block almost everyone else as well.

Not sure this has anything to do with Ts but, in your example above, the problem then (using your logic) would be other actors since they would be in direct competition with you and taking jobs that you might otherwise be making money on. The statement you made at the top suggests that you think hobbyists are a problem because they may breed their specimens and therefore will make it harder for dealers to sell the stock they have. Sounds logical except a hobbyist who breeds their specimens normally only breed a few species and have them for a very limited time. While these slings are being scooped up by the masses, the slings in a dealer's stock are getting larger and more valuable. I believe this will balance it out in the end.

Being in the business world myself, competition and fluctuating markets are a way of life. You deal with it or close up shop. Anyone who is bitter towards their competition or clients because they feel their piece of the pie is smaller because of them need to seriously think about finding another stream of income since there is no getting away from it. Even those odd companies that develop new products or provide unique services are not without competition for long. It only take a little bit of success before others make moves to cut in on the action.
It's the companies that stand out from the rest that end up surviving in the end. Companies that focus on how to screw their competition to grow their market share tend to have a very short boom, then a long bust until they shut down in the best of cases. Customers pick up on the negativity and tend to stop patronizing such establishments.

Those companies that focus on client retention programs (like great customer care, maintaining a high quality product, and customer incentive programs) are the ones that win out and endure in the long run. I do very little direct advertising with my company but I maintain a very high level of service with my clients and ensure they are taken care of the way I would expect a company to care for me. This goes a long way towards customer retention and loyalty. My product is service so the first point directly ties into this. As for customer incentive programs, being in the service industry, I don't have much opportunity to offer physical items to my clients but I regularly offer discounted rates for new clients and keep contact with clients even after a work order has been fulfilled in order to ensure they are happy with the service received. You would not believe how many companies do not follow-up with a client to see how things are going. Typically, I will call back 2-3 days later and ask the client if all is still well. Very often they will say everything is great and thank me for the call. Other times they will have minor issues to be taken care of and appreciate that I cared enough to make sure it was taken care of. Since I've implemented this policy I've noticed repeat business and referrals increase by nearly 400%. Aside from the level of service and support I've seen from the dealers on this site, one of the biggest client retention/loyalty programs I have seen used over and over again are freebies. I love freebies.

Business is a never ending battle but that doesn't mean you have to treat it like a war. Those who do eventually come to the realization that the only person harming their business is themselves.

 

[herpguy]

There is such a thing as market saturation.

then there is care.
Hmmm... care for 5000 slings.
Open, feed and water 500 slings a day.
50 slings per hour( averaging in breaks and distractions)
That's 10 hours a day.

I am thinking the price would drop fast.

Exactly!
There are not always going to be an unlimited amount of people with unlimited money, always jumping to buy your tarantulas, even P. metallica.
Eventually the price will need to drop in order to sell, and that will force down the prices of other dealers.
-Dave

 

[wedge07]

I was always told to find a job that pays well enough to live comfortably and do things you really enjoy doing. I think being a breeder could be something I would like to do in retirement not as career.

 

[Pacmaster]

I've just recently starting breeding my Ts and sending off males to breed with others but I don't consider it a business. I'll never turn this into a business though as I have my own business in another field which allows me to live the lifestyle I want comfortably. After looking at the amount of money I spent on Ts and related stuff in the last year alone, my breeding projects are just a means to support that habit without dipping into my other funds. I tried keeping a budget but that just doesn't work for me when it comes to Ts.

I think if you start off thinking of it as a business you won't be as encouraged since profits will come slowly at first, as with all endeavors. In short, don't quit your day job and work at it until you get to a point that you believe you can live comfortably without having to work elsewhere - then you can consider it a business in the real sense.

I dont think it could be summed up any better than this!

But I want to add reitterate that once you expect things from your hobby it might become tedious and dissapointing, it quickly becomes a "job", and most folks arent really ever happy with their jobs . . .
You have to keep it fun for yourself to keep it any way profitable, or at least to have it pay for itself!

And coming into a market(especially like on this board) and undercutting everyone will only make you enemies, and in this type of business it would pay to have other breeders/dealers as friends . . .

Believe me, I have given this subject lots of thought, and have stockpiled many animals(not just Ts) in order to have a suitable breeding colony of a few of MY favorite species.
I am now in the process of trying to breed and produce Pacman Frogs(ceratophrys sp) and then hopefully Ill be able to sell the babies(IF I get any at all) at shows, online, locally, but its still a big gamble.

FWIW, I had the most luck selling my baby kingsnakes to local momnpop shops around me.

 

[vvx]

Not sure this has anything to do with Ts but, in your example above, the problem then (using your logic) would be other actors since they would be in direct competition with you and taking jobs that you might otherwise be making money on. The statement you made at the top suggests that you think hobbyists are a problem because they may breed their specimens and therefore will make it harder for dealers to sell the stock they have. Sounds logical except a hobbyist who breeds their specimens normally only breed a few species and have them for a very limited time. While these slings are being scooped up by the masses, the slings in a dealer's stock are getting larger and more valuable. I believe this will balance it out in the end.

I am not saying bad things about hobbyists (I am one), I'm just trying to be a realist here. The difference between "other actors" is that when you're competing against people with a profit motive nobody wants to let prices fall to $0 profit while hobbyists are willing to accept that outcome.

Rather than "blaming" hobbyists for anything, I'm just pointing out that often times dream jobs are very hard to do and make money at, because people do them for free. If you look at what every 1st grader wants to do when they grow up and compare it to what they actually do you'll find the majority do not follow through on their dream jobs. Sure, some of it is that they changed their minds as they grew, but a lot of it is that dream jobs are a ton of work to make happen & be successful.

I believe this is what the dealers do now. They offer a far greater selection of specimens than most hobbyist could even hope to own. Also, as mentioned above, their sacs will produce a greater yield as they are skilled in the proper care of those sacs.

I'd be careful with that line of reasoning, as this hobby has been largely created by the hobbyist. While what you say is true if you have a very narrow view of a hobbyist as "just bought a rosehair 2 weeks ago" but when you expand it to include people who have hundreds or thousands of tarantulas, but do not do it as their main source of income, many of the hobbyists will actually have better yields than the dealers. Would you consider people like Talkenlate04 to have less skill than a dealer?

(In fact, it is not unlikely that some of the dealers are hobbyists and could not support themselves on their hobby.)

 

[burmish101]

I read you were also interested in breeding ball pythons. Snakes seem to be a much larger hobby than inverts here in the u.s. and there are serveral people that make a living breeding colormorphs of ball pythons. But of course you would need a ton of breeding stock to build up over the years and would take a ton of effort, but doable.

 

[Sathane]

Rather than "blaming" hobbyists for anything, I'm just pointing out that often times dream jobs are very hard to do and make money at, because people do them for free. If you look at what every 1st grader wants to do when they grow up and compare it to what they actually do you'll find the majority do not follow through on their dream jobs. Sure, some of it is that they changed their minds as they grew, but a lot of it is that dream jobs are a ton of work to make happen & be successful.

Also that children tend to have a very narrow view of the world, since they have little experience in it, and they believe what is told to them - namely, anyone can do anything they want in life. Unfortunately, this is not true. Not everyone can be an astronaut or a doctor when they grow up.

I'd be careful with that line of reasoning, as this hobby has been largely created by the hobbyist. While what you say is true if you have a very narrow view of a hobbyist as "just bought a rosehair 2 weeks ago" but when you expand it to include people who have hundreds or thousands of tarantulas, but do not do it as their main source of income, many of the hobbyists will actually have better yields than the dealers. Would you consider people like Talkenlate04 to have less skill than a dealer?

(In fact, it is not unlikely that some of the dealers are hobbyists and could not support themselves on their hobby.)

When I refer to 'the hobbyist', I'm referring to the average hobbyist. Someone who may have a few dozen Ts and enjoys working with them but doesn't necessarily look to educate themselves on the finer points of breeding and marketing. I know a few dealers who don't consider Ts their main source of income and I certainly wouldn't consider Talkenlate an average hobbyist. In fact, I know little of Ryan and thought he was a dealer. Go figure...

 

[Talkenlate04]

I am not sure about making a living off it but I did buy a car with money from it.

 

[TheBeautyOf8]

nice talken! thats what i wanna hear lol, well it seems from what your all saying, the basic thing is take my time, and since i only work 14 days a month and make 6k out of it i think i will take my time, i hace an idea (please comment on it) what about breeding some p metallica once or twice and keeping the slings for a year or two, the bigger they are the bigger the price correct? or jsut sell ome of the slings and keep half till they get to about 3" , also thanks for all your input guys its been very helpfull