This Makes Me SICK!!!

[spiderengineer]

I know I'm going to get some flack for this, but I'm going to say it because it needs to be said.

They are sensory based organisms, laws don't protect them from cruelty as they don't feel anything but instinct. A spider mauling another spider is no different than a praying mantis eating a mealworm slowly while it's alive. I've seen mealworms take almost 5 minutes to die as they are eaten posterior first. But alas no one keeps mealworms as pets, so no one writes a post asking for dislikes when someone posts a mealworm getting slowly eaten by a mantis, blood and guts spilling out everywhere. Where are the flags of disdain when someone posts a cricket getting crunched in half by a massive tarantula? Your feelings are anthropomorphic, you feel for it because it is a spider and you care for spiders. You don't feel for the cricket because you don't care for the cricket, it is simply food. This person feels about spiders the same way you feel about crickets, and crickets and spiders both have the same level of intellect/sensory awareness.

Nature is much more cruel than we are. 2 spiders fighting over nothing pales in comparison to a Hyena eating a baby zebra alive while the mother is dragged down and killed by the rest of the group.

I mean I agree to an extant that this is nature and things like this happen all the time. I always feel bad when I watch greats whites or killer whales eating baby seals, but its nature and the circle of life. the real problem with this situation is that this isn't a video of nature its a video of some one bored most likely and decided to tape a fight between two T's. so yes while this happens in nature (even though these two species would never meet) the fact of the matter is this was not something happening outside. it was a controlled environment and some one being a horrible owner. I mean yes we feed mealworms and crickets to T's, but its not out of some kind of pleasure in watching things die, its because its essential for them to to live. we as owner of wild animals regardless of what they are, are obligated to meet their needs so that they can live up to their potential. if that means feeding them mice or what their diet demands of them we have to do it. this act does not fill any such requirement and is purely entertainment, thus making its action abhorrent and wrong.

 

[EulersK]

Spiderengineer beat me to it. The "circle of life" is one thing, this (from the sounds of it) was purely for amusement on the owner's behalf. I do enjoy watching my T eat, absolutely. That could be argued to be hypocritical, sure, but feeding and fighting aren't similar at all.

However, I do agree with Cipher's point about them acting on instinct. They do not know pain in the same way that we do - our nervous system is lightyears ahead of theirs, so empathizing with their pain doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is sad that there are animal owners like that, and it is sad that the T's could have died, but the "pain" they felt surely is not sad.

 

[Fossa]

"the real problem with this situation is that this isn't a video of nature its a video of some one bored most likely and decided to tape a fight between two T's. so yes while this happens in nature (even though these two species would never meet) the fact of the matter is this was not something happening outside. it was a controlled environment and some one being a horrible owner"

I agree, slightly going off topic but take all the old 70's and 80's itallian horror/exploitation films such as Cannibal Holocaust and Cannibal Ferox. They were banned mainly for the graphic animal abuse portrayed as entertainment/shock value. The majority of these scenes were simply filmed as natural behaviour in the wild and the infamous turtle scene in Cannibal Holocaust actually fed the entire crew out filming. The main problem with these videos on youtube is generally they are males trying to prove how big their balls are by pitting animals against each other, I have had many people ask me about snakes (as I keep them) down the local pub and say they want one to watch them feed on live mice as they think it's cool. I have even come across blood python breeders feeding ball pythons to their stock. While snakes will predate on other snakes and while these breeders may choose to do this ... the filming of it for others entertainment or to make themselves appear macho is pointless and only serves to tempt other people to try it. Unfortunately nature is cruel but man is crueler

 

[EulersK]

I agree, slightly going off topic but take all the old 70's and 80's itallian horror/exploitation films such as Cannibal Holocaust and Cannibal Ferox. They were banned mainly for the graphic animal abuse portrayed as entertainment/shock value. The majority of these scenes were simply filmed as natural behaviour in the wild and the infamous turtle scene in Cannibal Holocaust actually fed the entire crew out filming. The main problem with these videos on youtube is generally they are males trying to prove how big their balls are by pitting animals against each other, I have had many people ask me about snakes (as I keep them) down the local pub and say they want one to watch them feed on live mice as they think it's cool. I have even come across blood python breeders feeding ball pythons to their stock. While snakes will predate on other snakes and while these breeders may choose to do this ... the filming of it for others entertainment or to make themselves appear macho is pointless and only serves to tempt other people to try it. Unfortunately nature is cruel but man is crueler

Well, to be fair, that's not why Cannibal Holocaust was banned. It didn't help, but it was banned because people thought it was real. The director served some time for it until he proved that it was, indeed, fake. As for why the ban stayed on? Watch the movie, people thought it was real for a reason.

While Cannibal Holocaust is one of my favorite horror movies, I always skip through the animal torture scenes. They were completely unnecessary, and the entire movie loses credibility to me because of them. Yes, they ate the turtle, but they made it suffer. And don't even get me started on the monkey scene. I feel that those scenes are far, far worse than anything involving bugs could be. Again, this is because of the nervous system that has developed in higher order animals.

 

[spiderengineer]

" The main problem with these videos on youtube is generally they are males trying to prove how big their balls are by pitting animals against each other, I have had many people ask me about snakes (as I keep them) down the local pub and say they want one to watch them feed on live mice as they think it's cool. I have even come across blood python breeders feeding ball pythons to their stock. While snakes will predate on other snakes and while these breeders may choose to do this ... the filming of it for others entertainment or to make themselves appear macho is pointless and only serves to tempt other people to try it. Unfortunately nature is cruel but man is crueler

on the same line of thinking this reminds of an article I read a few months back. it was about how some one was trying to find a way to help turtles cross roads safer. so he watched turtles crossing road. what he found was some people or a large portion went out of their way to hit the turtles. the article goes on to say how psychologically some people need to do this as away to reinforce dominion over animals. so this thread got me thinking about this article. it got me to realize I am sure that some people do this kind of thing for that very reason. it makes them feel empowered like they control the life and death.

 

[Fossa]

Well, to be fair, that's not why Cannibal Holocaust was banned. It didn't help, but it was banned because people thought it was real. The director served some time for it until he proved that it was, indeed, fake. As for why the ban stayed on? Watch the movie, people thought it was real for a reason.

While Cannibal Holocaust is one of my favorite horror movies, I always skip through the animal torture scenes. They were completely unnecessary, and the entire movie loses credibility to me because of them. Yes, they ate the turtle, but they made it suffer. And don't even get me started on the monkey scene. I feel that those scenes are far, far worse than anything involving bugs could be. Again, this is because of the nervous system that has developed in higher order animals.

True it wasn't the only reason for the ban but remains one of the main objections to the film to date after all the court case. The version I have actually came with a second disc with all the animal torture edited out lol, and by no means do I condone the actions in the film (the boa scene for example) but the director was still trying to portray some sort of artistic vision of his own (slightly crazy) mind.

What i was trying to say (in a roundabout way) was that filming things like this spawn imitations (after CH came cannibal ferox, eaten alive etc) and I feel with ease of use of you tube and the fact most teenagers/young adults have a camera phone if not a full HD camera although not on the same scale as having a lion eat a baby elephant for example the fact they can do it with something picked up easily from a LPS is pretty bad.

Cannibal Holocaust is one of my fave horrors also, I literally cannot hear the title score without shuddering. lol

 

[Ciphor]

I mean yes we feed mealworms and crickets to T's, but its not out of some kind of pleasure in watching things die, its because its essential for them to to live. we as owner of wild animals regardless of what they are, are obligated to meet their needs so that they can live up to their potential. if that means feeding them mice or what their diet demands of them we have to do it. this act does not fill any such requirement and is purely entertainment, thus making its action abhorrent and wrong.

Maybe you don't take pleasure in watching your T's devour a cricket or meal worm, but believe me, the vast majority of T owners do. Just look at the forum, people love to post pictures of their T destroying prey.

Why the person pit two large T's against one another is in my opinion, irrelevant. The main point here is he watched an arthropod attack another arthropod. If we say he can't do it because it wasn't a requirement of the survival of the T, where do we draw the line? Is it ok if its another species?

Is it based on size? So is it not ok to feed my true spiders other true spiders? They do it all the time in nature. http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/373593/view Is it ok for true spiders but not mygalids?

Some species entire diet is other equal sized spiders, ground spiders are well known for preying on spiders. I enjoy watching my gnaphosids stalk and take down an equal sized spider. Is it hair? Only one spider can have hair? If I keep crickets as pets, can I remove all videos with crickets being killed when the spider is clearly full and not in need of a meal? Is it what it would eat in nature? Do I have to stop feeding my T's crickets because they wouldn't be normal food?

Can centipedes still eat spiders? http://artipod.deviantart.com/art/Centipede-Eating-Wolf-Spider-319596794 You think this centipede needed a spider for its meal? Naw, it was just fine on a cricket/worm diet I'm sure. I wonder if he fed the pede the spider because he wanted to see it. Do you think anyone would take down a video of this?

What about beetles? Can I feed my spiders beetles? But what if I put a large Rhino beetle against a emp scorpion? What if my scorpion hasn't eaten in awhile and could use a meal that large? Is it ok then?

The real question is; If I know I'm going to enjoy watching the cricket get devoured by my new T, do I have to turn away? I fed my Hierodula membranacea a mature male Tegenaria gigantea. Both pretty large, and really, both capable of killing one another, though unlikely the mantis loses this fight. The mantis ate it of course, but really didn't need the meal. A lot of people gathered around to watch, am I wrong for enjoying it?

I guess the point I'm making is if you are going to take a hard stance, don't make it on shaky ground. If you stand up for one arthropods rights, you better be prepared to stand up for all of them. Animal cruelty is not situational. It doesn't apply only when you want it to. Not directing this at you spiderengineer, this is directed at everyone who has their hands in the air over a spider killing another spider for pleasure.

Is discovery cruel, and if I enjoy watching this am I cruel? http://science.discovery.com/tv-shows/monster-bug-wars

 

[spiderengineer]

Maybe you don't take pleasure in watching your T's devour a cricket or meal worm, but believe me, the vast majority of T owners do. Just look at the forum, people love to post pictures of their T destroying prey.

Why the person pit two large T's against one another is in my opinion, irrelevant. The main point here is he watched an arthropod attack another arthropod. If we say he can't do it because it wasn't a requirement of the survival of the T, where do we draw the line? Is it ok if its another species?

Is it based on size? So is it not ok to feed my true spiders other true spiders? They do it all the time in nature. http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/373593/view Is it ok for true spiders but not mygalids?

Some species entire diet is other equal sized spiders, ground spiders are well known for preying on spiders. Is it hair? Only one spider can have hair? If I keep crickets as pets, can I remove all videos with crickets being killed when the spider is clearly full and not in need of a meal? Is it what it would eat in nature? Do I have to stop feeding my T's crickets because they wouldn't be normal food?

Can centipedes still eat spiders? http://artipod.deviantart.com/art/Centipede-Eating-Wolf-Spider-319596794 You think this centipede needed a spider for its meal? Naw, it was just fine on a cricket/worm diet I'm sure. I wonder if he fed the pede the spider because he wanted to see it. Do you think anyone would take down a video of this?

What about beetles? Can I feed my spiders beetles? But what if I put a large Rhino beetle against a emp scorpion? What if my scorpion hasn't eaten in awhile and could use a meal that large? Is it ok then?

The real question is; If I know I'm going to enjoy watching the cricket get devoured by my new T, do I have to turn away? I fed my Hierodula membranacea a mature male Tegenaria gigantea. Both pretty large, and really, both capable of killing one another, though unlikely the mantis loses this fight. The mantis ate it of course, but really didn't need the meal. A lot of people gathered around to watch, am I wrong for enjoying it?

I guess the point I'm making is if you are going to take a hard stance, don't make it on shaky ground. If you stand up for one arthropods rights, you better be prepared to stand up for all of them. Animal cruelty is not situational. It doesn't apply only when you want it to. Not directing this at you spiderengineer, this is directed at everyone who has their hands in the air over a spider killing another spider for pleasure.

watching a predator eat and hunt is one thing wishing something dead is something completely different that is the point I was making. you are right their are plenty of spiders that feed on other spiders (jumping spider are a perfect example) but here is the thing you need to realize its all about how he portray the video. if he had said an obt feeding on a spider or vise versa then I could let it slide. because your right its nature and it happens. in fact their are plenty on youtube who feed their tarantula wolf spider and film it but they saying feeding in the video. indicating that they were doing exactly what would happen in nature. yeah you could be angry at those, but it happens in the wild and T's have a vide variety of food to choose from. I don't even get upset with those, because its something that is encounter in the wild and that is how it goes, but the fact that he posted it as OBT vs. suntiger so that he was merely making a UFC fight and nothing more. I mean if you want to argue Semantics then you cant get upset about dog fights as well, because they would do that in the wild as well. so its all about the context of the video. it was nothing more than pitting two predators against each and seeing what happens. while yes this does happen in nature their are reason for it. I cringe when people flat out say T's are cannibals because its about context of why they are cannibals. yes they will eat each other, but their is usually a reason i.e. food is scarce and they are both hungry, one is weaker or smaller than another and they just happen to cross path or even a mating attempt gone bad just to name a few, while yes true spiders are adapted at eating other spider. I am unaware of a tarantula that dines exclusively on other spider. the point is that spider will not always just attack each other when they cross path. their are plenty examples of communal and social spider everywhere.

but here we have a situation were two predators have absolutely no reason to be pitted against each other, because they are not being mated, their is not food shortages. so the owner took nature out of the equation and play god essential for what ever reason other than to nature being the reason.

---------- Post added 04-16-2013 at 02:54 PM ----------

on a side note I am against tong feeding T or spider. simply because its a unnatural thing for them to do. I also realize you saying this as a whole and not directing at me specifically so don't worry

 

[Ciphor]

Ok, so all he needs to do is rename the video and everything is ok? And I can feed my tarantula whatever I want as long as I put "this is for food"? A moral loophole, interesting concept.

I got your point spiderengineer, I think you missed mine though. I really doubt people feed their T's a wolf spider because it needs a meal. They found the spider and thought it would be cool and entertaining to feed it to their bigger spider.

On your note of "natural" things to do, well, keeping a T as a pet is not natural. If I want you to walk away from this with anything, its that not everything will be natural, definitely not in a captive setting. You need to find out where you draw the line and make sure it makes sense. Right now you have drawn the line on entertainment vs. necessity with a splash of "keeping it natural". Well, crickets are convenient, and are not natural food for most T's, and plenty of people get entertainment out of watching their spider chow down on live crickets. By your current moral stance, feeding my T crickets is not acceptable. Feeding my T crickets and taking a video of it with the title "Wow this cricket got destroyed" would make me a "horrible" person.

 

[JZC]

Can't find it..was it taken down?

 

[spiderengineer]

Ok, so all he needs to do is rename the video and everything is ok? And I can feed my tarantula whatever I want as long as I put "this is for food"? A moral loophole, interesting concept.

yep, basically because again all about context. saying A vs. B indicates that you want to watch a fight happen. but if you are saying I am feeding my T a wolf spider then people can say "hey you shouldn't do that" but you have nature as a justification. but by saying hey I am taking these two things and putting them in a tank and watch them fight. thats not nature thats you being a d bag.

---------- Post added 04-16-2013 at 04:18 PM ----------

also their are benefits with keeping wild animals as pet. like you become educated and appreciate them more. but another aspect is it also ensure they are not going to go extinct. for example I love haplopelma, but in their native land they are practically being wipe out by natives eating them as food. their is some article about whether this is a sustainable practice. Unfortunately it doesn't look good at the rate they are being taken. so I wouldn't be surprise if one day the genus haplopelma is only found in a captive breed environment. so while it is unnatural to have them as pet, I feel that i am ensure they survive somewhere and not become victims like the doodo and the tazmanie devil

 

[Ciphor]

in fact their are plenty on youtube who feed their tarantula wolf spider and film it but they saying feeding in the video.

Question, if it's just for feeding then why record it? Surely we have enough documented videos on how a spider eats, so science is ruled out.

Do you think they record it for entertainment? Sharing that entertainment of a cricket being crushed with others?

indicating that they were doing exactly what would happen in nature. yeah you could be angry at those, but it happens in the wild and T's have a vide variety of food to choose from.

I always feel bad when I watch greats whites or killer whales eating baby seals, but its nature and the circle of life. the real problem with this situation is that this isn't a video of nature its a video of some one bored most likely and decided to tape a fight between two T's. so yes while this happens in nature (even though these two species would never meet) the fact of the matter is this was not something happening outside. it was a controlled environment and some one being a horrible owner.

Do you not see a conflict here in your stance and how by having a stance on something so shaky you easily contradict yourself? In one instance you say, it happens in the wild but its not ok because it was for entertainment and its not a video of the wild, then in your next stance your saying its fine because it would happen in the wild with such a wide variety of food.

Brass tax bro, it is a predatory arthropod killing another predatory arthropod, it is being observed for entertainment/curiousity/human nature/whatever you want to call it. Cricket on film, meal worm on film, spider on film, doesn't make a difference. The only difference is how YOU feel about it. That's it. Accept you have feelings for your T's, and move on. There is nothing wrong with that, but what is wrong, is begrudging others because they feel the same way about spiders that you feel about crickets, they don't care! I enjoy watching predators take down prey, and you know what? I'm not a horrible person for it.

 

[ragnarokxg]

Question, if it's just for feeding then why record it? Surely we have enough documented videos on how a spider eats, so science is ruled out.

Do you think they record it for entertainment? Sharing that entertainment of a cricket being crushed with others?





Do you not see a conflict here in your stance and how by having a stance on something so shaky you easily contradict yourself? In one instance you say, it happens in the wild but its not ok because it was for entertainment and its not a video of the wild, then in your next stance your saying its fine because it would happen in the wild with such a wide variety of food.

Brass tax bro, it is a predatory arthropod killing another predatory arthropod, it is being observed for entertainment/curiousity/human nature/whatever you want to call it. Cricket on film, meal worm on film, spider on film, doesn't make a difference. The only difference is how YOU feel about it. That's it. Accept you have feelings for your T's, and move on. There is nothing wrong with that, but what is wrong, is begrudging others because they feel the same way about spiders that you feel about crickets, they don't care! I enjoy watching predators take down prey, and you know what? I'm not a horrible person for it.

I think what the biggest problem here is that they purposely put them in to fight, then at the end of the video said to take them out because they were injured. Yeah they put them to fight out of curiosity/<insert reason here> but in the end it was to see to separate species that would not meet in nature fight. Okay so they put two territorial predators up against each other. But they didn't put them into a situation where one could flee if it wanted to. They were enclosed in a tank, probably one that belonged to another T and forced them to confront each other.

Now I don't see a difference in making two spiders fight then putting a wild scorpion on an ant pile as I did when I was a child. Because it is human nature to be curious, but these are pets we are housing to give a better life to. And that makes them no different than forcing your pet dog to fight another dog.

 

[Ciphor]

I think what the biggest problem here is that they purposely put the cricket in to die. Yeah they put the cricket in to die out of need to eat/<insert reason here> but in the end it was to see the cricket species get eaten. But they didn't put the cricket into a situation where one could flee if it wanted to. They were enclosed in a tank, probably one that belonged to another genus and forced them to confront each other.

I edited your quote above with cricket instead of spider. So how is my filming a cricket getting killed by a spider any different? Does my filming the cricket dying aid in the spiders getting nutrition?

Or are You saying because the cricket is not a pet? So you agree with me that people only care because they care about spiders?

 

[spiderengineer]

see that is the difference between are ideas I don't see it as entertainment. I video tape my feeding not because I enjoy watching a cricket get eaten by a spider. I do it because I find it fascinating and I learned things and want to help other learn. one thing people learn right off the bat with my video is burrowing species don't need food shoved down their burrow for them to eat. I am sure you have seen plenty of threads with people asking that question. you can never have to many videos of observing animals behaviors, because people miss things or some things are never seen until randomly being video tape. even science states this with everything being theories, because even if it explains what is happening it could be diss-proven with new observation.

so if someone is posting a video of Two T's fighting and they post it like that then all you seen is how horrible an owner is with his pet, yet say some one video tapes a centipedes eating a scorpions and its stated as a feeding video. then we learn that one centipedes eat scorpions as food and we see how they can pull it off. that is educating people to what happens in nature. its the way it is and has been going on for eons. you don't have to like it and can be outrage, but its educating people whether they wanted it to or not.

now say instead you say centipede vs. scorpion this is not educational this is sensational. this person is making out like a pay per vie event and just making a mockery of nature. so you may still learn something, but it was done completely wrong. again its all about context and how you set up your videos. I mean perfect example is this of being purely sensational

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0lT6sTFnpk

---------- Post added 04-16-2013 at 05:34 PM ----------

not to mention when people on here ask if its ok to feed T's spider they catch. I say they shouldn't do it because they could be carry something that makes their T's sick, I also so they shouldn't do it because its frown upon in the hobby. I don't say you shouldn't do it because of some moral high ground or anything just stating what could go wrong if they choose to do it.

 

[ragnarokxg]

I edited your quote above with cricket instead of spider. So how is my filming a cricket getting killed by a spider any different? Does my filming the cricket dying aid in the spiders getting nutrition?

Or are You saying because the cricket is not a pet? So you agree with me that people only care because they care about spiders?

Yes stating it the way you did I understand what you are trying to say. And there really is no difference in filming a feeding and filming a fight between two creatures in captivity other than one is to provide sustanance to another creature while the other is to sensationalize violence between two creatures that may or may not run into each other in the wild. For example I would have no problem seeing a camel spider/wind scorpion and a Tarantula fighting if they were both local species. But when you get two T's such as the two filmed and use them for entertainment purposes then I do have a slight problem with it. Especially if the end result is not going to result with one spider winning and being provided the sustanance it needs to heal up. They let them fight than removed one of them so they wouldn't kill each other in the video that was posted. It was a fight just to have a fight. Same as any other fight video you could look on YouTube for whether it be creature vs creature or human vs human it is all sensationalizing violence.

 

[Ciphor]

I video tape my feeding not because I enjoy watching a cricket get eaten by a spider. I do it because I find it fascinating and I learned things and want to help other learn.

You know there are millions already on youtube? What are you learning exactly?

Common man, are you trolling me right now bro?

If your not, I guess the only fresh thing I have to say on this topic is; Every scenario you give comes to the same end, it results in a video of an arthropod brutally killing another arthropod that ends up on youtube, and a buncha people who want to see it because they think its entertaining do. I guess I'm one of those "at the end of the day, what is the difference?" kinda people. You think watching a cricket die is fascinating, that guy thinks watching 2 spiders die is a UFC fight. I see the same thing, an animal dying. For food, for some kids twisted pleasure, from the spider and crickets perspective, it's all the same; an undesirable death. To bring the topic full circle, animal cruelty takes into account the animals feelings not the persons. Cats, Dogs, etc. feel suffering, spiders, crickets, etc. do not.

I will say I respect and understand everyone's opinions, and I hope I didn't come off any other way. I know these types of topics can be 'emotional' sometimes like a political debate about women's choices.

 

[spiderengineer]

Common man, are you trolling me right now bro?

if I was a troll I would be asking why everyone was so butt hurt about the video. I was never expecting either one of us to change are opinions on this topic. your right it at the end of the day it comes down to how each individual views the video and we clearly see it as two different ways. their nothing wrong with that and that is what forums are for to debate and discuss.

 

[RedDragon13]

Two T's I'm not allowed to have, and he's abusing both of them... It's like a kid looking into a candy store that can't have any! For real though this guy's messed up.. It's kinda weird though, I'm in high school and almost every conversation I have about this hobby someone brings up buying two of them and fighting them... I always shoot the idea down very quickly

 

[ragnarokxg]

if I was a troll I would be asking why everyone was so butt hurt about the video. I was never expecting either one of us to change are opinions on this topic. your right it at the end of the day it comes down to how each individual views the video and we clearly see it as two different ways. their nothing wrong with that and that is what forums are for to debate and discuss.

I agree with you.

You know there are millions already on youtube? What are you learning exactly?

Common man, are you trolling me right now bro?

If your not, I guess the only fresh thing I have to say on this topic is; Every scenario you give comes to the same end, it results in a video of an arthropod brutally killing another arthropod that ends up on youtube, and a buncha people who want to see it because they think its entertaining do. I guess I'm one of those "at the end of the day, what is the difference?" kinda people. You think watching a cricket die is fascinating, that guy thinks watching 2 spiders die is a UFC fight. I see the same thing, an animal dying. For food, for some kids twisted pleasure, from the spider and crickets perspective, it's all the same; an undesirable death. To bring the topic full circle, animal cruelty takes into account the animals feelings not the persons. Cats, Dogs, etc. feel suffering, spiders, crickets, etc. do not.

I will say I respect and understand everyone's opinions, and I hope I didn't come off any other way. I know these types of topics can be 'emotional' sometimes like a political debate about women's choices.

I didn't say it was equivalent to a UFC fight. I was more talking about a schoolyard fight where two people are out to injure each other. I should have been a bit more clear. And as far as we know Tarantulas don't feel pain like we do. But they do feel pain, and as a T owner that cares for all animals equally, yeah it pisses me off to see someone abusing two tarantulas in that way. Is it going to always happen, well as long as there are curious people or immature people who like to see creatures hurt each other for entertainment, then yeah it will always happen. This is proven by the existence of cock fights, dog fights, and other animal vs animal "entertainment" all around the world.