This is seriously important

[myrmecophile]

My brain is close to exploding from trying to decipher the regulatory language and legalese in order to understand these changes. What I am really trying to figure out is exactly what is CHANGING when these regs go into place.



So Myrmecophile, do you have additional knowledge about this issue?
For example, re the requirement to NOTIFY the dept before collecting on a specific date - is that totally new, or is it just altered?
"You must notify the Department of Fish and Wildlife regional office by noon one (1) business day prior to scientific collecting activity authorized, and no more than two weeks in advance or your activity."


Is the requirement to REPORT every specimen collected (and to specify each species, etc) with GPS coordinates and details- is that totally new? Was there no reporting (of individuals collected) required prior to these regs?
"this Mandatory Wildlife Report ("Report," or MWR) is required to be filled out completely and submitted for any wildlife taken or possessed via a Scientific Collecting Permit (SCP). "

Also, do you (or anyone) have any knowledge of how the fees will change with the new regs? Is there a dramatic increase?


The above quote from Philip's letter is spot-on. Some of the requirements, as stated in the new regs, are just really outrageous in regards to collection of invertebrates. They make much more sense when dealing with mammals or reptiles, but it doesn't appear it was thought through in terms of how scientific research of inverts works.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

The following are comments from Doug Yanega at UCR.

I will note three things to reinforce Gordon's call for comments:

(1) these laws are already on the books, and while the public comment period is not intended to be an invitation to ask for the regulations to be repealed, that really is what is needed. BY DEFINITION any biologist or high school student in California is breaking the law if they catch insects for scientific or educational purposes without having bought and received a CDFW collecting permit, which comes with a very hefty non-refundable price tag (i.e., if they reject your permit application, they keep 100 bucks of your money anyway).

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Licensing/Scientific-Collecting

(2) The appended letter by Phil Ward gets to EXACTLY the main problem, which is worth emphasizing and focusing on: regulations for Threatened & Endangered (T&E) wildlife are absolutely fine, and we should all be willing to comply, but imposing effectively the same level of restrictions on the collecting of arthropods which are *not* T&E taxa is incredibly harmful to both science and education.

(3) note that the agency is California Department of Fish and Wildlife, and NOT "Fish and Game", so don't make that mistake when submitting comments.

For those of you not in California, note that Washington, Kansas, Wyoming, and other states have laws that are similar, if not worse. Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into a massive gripe session; the point is that we do have at least this one present case where public comments might be helpful. End

I (Gordon (myrmecophile) ) have not been involved much lately in collecting in California, however from past experience I can tell you that the post collection reporting is nothing new and any time I made collections under a permit I was required to send in a list of what was collected and where. It sounds as if they have tightened up and begun requiring additional information. I seem to recall that there was a requirement from some agencies to prenotify but it was never really enforced much.

 

[RTTB]

So if I collect a tarantula crossing the road am I breaking the law?

 

[VolkswagenBug]

Looks like it, although I am by no means an expert in legalese.

 

[RTTB]

I consider myself an environmentalist and a conservationist but this is too much. More bugs less bureaucrats!!

 

[The Snark]

The above quote from Philip's letter is spot-on. Some of the requirements, as stated in the new regs, are just really outrageous in regards to collection of invertebrates. They make much more sense when dealing with mammals or reptiles, but it doesn't appear it was thought through in terms of how scientific research of inverts works.

Sounds like it may be a rubber stamp / copy from some other regulation. IE rules and legislation just to fill holes and out baskets.

 

[Galapoheros]

For years I've felt they have been passing laws without the intent of strict enforcement just so they can legally do so later for whatever reasons. You let your kid have a car to drive but the title is in your name so you can legally take the car away any time you want to, something like that. I asked that game warden, "You mean technically, I can't pick up a pillbug on my own property without a permit?" "Well, that's how it's written." Somebody else told me that warden had it wrong but it's so ridiculous, I'm just going to keep on keeping on until the next ridiculous thing occurs.

 

[kevinlowl]

@The Snark Comrade, how does the government pushing draconian regulations in an uber lib state equal "Trump iz baed"?

 

[The Snark]

For years I've felt they have been passing laws without the intent of strict enforcement just so they can legally do so later for whatever reasons.

You should check out Thailand. For example, pretty much the same laws regarding operating a motor vehicle as in Calif. But , more or less, zero law enforcement. The laws are made as you said, or just something to impress the cronies and higher-ups. Laws without enforcement is like a fish without a bicycle.

The Gov pushing draconian laws is, as stated, a knee jerk reaction. Over reaction. When head honchos in the gov start wholesale handing out big biz favors like at present to the detriment of the environment, these knee jerk laws inevitably come sliding out of the woodwork. Recalling applying for a depredation permit at a camp in LA County. Denied. Hungry bear displaced by a forest fire roaming among 100 campers may only be shot if a person is actually being attacked. The knee jerk laws often are unworkable, lacking in common sense, or even outright fantasies. But that is pretty much all we got with the check and balances raped in the big biz natural resources give away stampede.

 

[VolkswagenBug]

@The Snark Comrade, how does the government pushing draconian regulations in an uber lib state equal "Trump iz baed"?

Hoo boy, could we maybe try to not turn this thread into a political argument?

 

[kevinlowl]

Hoo boy, could we maybe try to not turn this thread into a political argument?

Yes by keeping the rabid politics guy in his watering hole

 

[VolkswagenBug]

Yes by keeping the rabid politics guy in his watering hole

Both of you are being equally annoying with your politics. Let's keep things on the topic of this specific law rather than environmental destruction as a whole, just for the benefit of everyone here.

 

[RTTB]

Yeah I got lost a few replies back.